[Buddha-l] women & , er, religion

[Curt Steinmetz]

This is also true of Wicca - in Starhawk's "Spiral Dance" she famously 
wrote that Witchcraft or The Craft (the terms she prefers over Wicca) 
"is a religion of clergy". It's possible that she stole the idea from 
the Quakers, or that she got it from the Yippies ("A Yippie is a leader 
with no followers." Jerry Rubin). Although it is more likely derived 
from Freemasonry/Ceremonial Magic.

"Clergy" also has a very practical connotation of someone who is 
empowered to officiate at weddings and funerals. This is more important 
for weddings than for funerals because if it is not done "legally" the 
two people will not really, officially be married, and that makes a 
difference. However if someone whose paperwork is not in order 
officiates at your funeral - well, you are still just as dead.

Who officiates at a Quaker wedding?

Also the discussion seems to be blurring the distinction between 
ordination of Monastics and ordination of Priests.

Curt

jkirk wrote:
> We, the undersigned, must strenuously disagree with Jayarava here. As we understand Buddhist ordination, the FWBO does not ordain women at all. That is because it does not ordain ANYONE in the sense most Buddhists understand ordination. There are no bhikkhus or bhikkhunis who follow the vinaya in the FWBO. It is extremely misleading to call dharmachari(ni) initiation "ordination". It is, well, the word just used: initiation. In India they call the ceremony of becoming a dharmachari(ni) dīkṣā (diik.saa, for those who lack Unicode capabilities), which means any religious ceremony or investiture or initiation. Dharmacāridīkṣā is never called upasampadā.
>
> Dayamati Dharmachari (WBO)
> and Richard Hayes (RSFQ)
> ===========================
> So, Richard,
>
> Thanks for the extra about the Quakers having no laity....inspiring idea. I'd also forgotten that Nixon wasn't excomunicated, alas.
>
> Back to the WBO--well,  if no ordination only diikshaa, then in the WBO what kind of 
> office is a 'mitra' and how does it differ from being an initiand? 
>
> Joanna
>
>
>
>
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