[Buddha-l] Gremium, Ordination and Vinaya

[Chris Fynn]

schnipp schnupp wrote:

> Sorry for the confusion, I was so sure "gremium" is used in English ... What I meaned was panel or board. So the question is: Who do you turn to when violations of Vinaya rules occur in the US? Do you have kind of a Vinaya board to discuss them - which means deal with them according to the Vinaya? That, along with other tasks like making the Vinaya known, should be the aim of such a board. 

> For example, sex with penetration (by Vinaya ordained monks or nuns) means a lifelong exclusion from the sangha. So it is s.th. important that should be brought to attention. 

Traditionally aren't only monks are supposed to concern themselves with 
vinaya? - In any Buddhist country are lay followers to expected report 
infractions to some panel or board?

In the Tibetan tradition the vinaya is "secret" and supposed to only be 
studied by monks. Most say laypeople are not supposed to read since it 
is believed they might misinterpret things and loose respect for the 
monastic sangha - which would of course be detrimental to their 
spiritual well being.

Unlike in Theravadin countries, Tibetan ordination ceremonies are not 
attended by family members or the public - only already ordained monks 
and those being ordained may be present.

Monastic ordination in Tibet is also usually for life since it is said 
if one forsakes monastic ordination one forsakes all beings thus also 
breaching Bodhisattva vows.


> Another problem then is that the ordained don't like transparency too much. 

This is why your idea of "gremium"  panel or board lay people can 
complain to seems unlikely - there is also no central authority like the 
Vatican in Buddhism

> I would hope that they make their "decisions" according to the Vinaya 
> visible in cases where the laity is interested (i.e. needs to be
> protected from harming teachers).

IMO if some teacher has seriously harmed someone they should probably be 
sued for damages in the court - or, where that harm involves a crime, 
reported to the police. Reporting to a "Buddhist panel" only invites
cover-up.

- CF

> Guido