[Buddha-l] Batchelor

[Jackhat1 at aol.com]

In a message dated 3/17/2010 10:36:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
joy.vriens at gmail.com writes:
 
I read a good book by James Carse lately, The Religious Case   Against

> Belief. A quote from it, "Thinking starts when  belief  ends.."  This
> stopping of
> thinking, of  course,  isn't the mystical  experience mentioned  below.
>

There seems to be a distinction between what one could  call active faith
(adherence) and passive faith. The former is more based  on some sort of
decision whereas the latter just seems to well up. E.g.  someone or 
something
inspires faith to you. That sort of faith. I see that  type of faith more as
linked to vasana or samskara.
==
I wonder if one can ever base faith on a decision. That is why I don't  
think Pascal's Wager is useful as a guideline. One can't decide to have faith  
in God because it gives you an advantage.


The Suttas make the distinction that there are two types of faith. One  is 
bright faith. An example is  accepting the teachings of the Four Noble  
Truths. Bright faith is unproven. It is a provisional faith. When I go to  a 
teacher to learn how to play a musical instrument, I accept what the teacher  
is saying=--for the moment. Bright faith has limited value and is only a  
teaching tool. The other type of faith is proved faith. This is faith that is  
based on your experience and that has soaked into your bones. An example is  
observing that attachment causes suffering in your life. This proved faith 
is  what I call knowledge or insight. At least, that is how I see it.
===

I don't see how thinking can be possible with at least some a  priori
reasoning, which one could consider as faith. I am not sure belief  ever
ends. It can go underground like a perpetual act.
=====
To me, there are two types of thinking. One is discursive reasoning. An  
example would be figuring out in your head 12,424 divided by 40. The other is  
what I observe in deep meditation. A thought arises and passes away. A  
solution to a problem might appear and pass away. Here my "I" is not  thinking.
 
jack