From jkirk at spro.net Thu Dec 1 20:06:50 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 20:06:50 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] A boon to Buddhists everywhere? Message-ID: <001101ccb09f$700ed290$502c77b0$@spro.net> Medics remove 27 pellets from hunter's buttocks The Associated Press 12/01/2011 A bird hunter in Utah was shot in the buttocks after his dog stepped on a shotgun laid across the bow of a boat. Box Elder County Sheriff's Deputy Kevin Potter says the 46-year-old Brigham City man was duck hunting with a friend 10 miles west of the city when he climbed out of the boat to move decoys. Potter says the man left his 12-gauge shotgun in the boat and the dog stepped on it, causing it to fire. It wasn't clear whether the safety on the gun was on at the time. From robertertman at msn.com Fri Dec 2 07:14:55 2011 From: robertertman at msn.com (Robert Ertman) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 09:14:55 -0500 Subject: [Buddha-l] A boon to Buddhists everywhere? In-Reply-To: <001101ccb09f$700ed290$502c77b0$@spro.net> References: <001101ccb09f$700ed290$502c77b0$@spro.net> Message-ID: No, not a boon to Buddhists anywhere. Bob E. > From: jkirk at spro.net > To: buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 20:06:50 -0700 > Subject: [Buddha-l] A boon to Buddhists everywhere? > > > > > > Medics remove 27 pellets from hunter's buttocks > > > > The Associated Press 12/01/2011 > > > > A bird hunter in Utah was shot in the buttocks after his dog stepped on a > shotgun laid across the bow of a boat. > > > > Box Elder County Sheriff's Deputy Kevin Potter says the 46-year-old Brigham > City man was duck hunting with a friend 10 miles west of the city when he > climbed out of the boat to move decoys. > > > > Potter says the man left his 12-gauge shotgun in the boat and the dog > stepped on it, causing it to fire. > > > > It wasn't clear whether the safety on the gun was on at the time. > > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Fri Dec 2 16:38:51 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 16:38:51 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] This is better Message-ID: <00d601ccb14b$8c7c4640$a574d2c0$@spro.net> http://www.theworld.org/2011/12/buddhism-modern-life-china/ From jkirk at spro.net Fri Dec 2 17:22:46 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 17:22:46 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] A boon to Buddhists everywhere? In-Reply-To: References: <001101ccb09f$700ed290$502c77b0$@spro.net> Message-ID: <00f201ccb151$aebd2340$0c3769c0$@spro.net> Right--I briefly got carried away by the consequences of it all. Jo K -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Robert Ertman Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 7:15 AM To: buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] A boon to Buddhists everywhere? No, not a boon to Buddhists anywhere. Bob E. > From: jkirk at spro.net > To: buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 20:06:50 -0700 > Subject: [Buddha-l] A boon to Buddhists everywhere? > > > > > > Medics remove 27 pellets from hunter's buttocks > > > > The Associated Press 12/01/2011 > > > > A bird hunter in Utah was shot in the buttocks after his dog stepped > on a shotgun laid across the bow of a boat. > > > > Box Elder County Sheriff's Deputy Kevin Potter says the 46-year-old > Brigham City man was duck hunting with a friend 10 miles west of the > city when he climbed out of the boat to move decoys. > > > > Potter says the man left his 12-gauge shotgun in the boat and the dog > stepped on it, causing it to fire. > > > > It wasn't clear whether the safety on the gun was on at the time. > > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From chris.fynn at gmail.com Sun Dec 4 06:52:21 2011 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 19:52:21 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Rare Footage of Tibetan Nun's Self-Immolation Smuggledout of Tibet In-Reply-To: References: <003901cca8b7$7248d8c0$56da8a40$@spro.net> Message-ID: On 22 November 2011 14:08, Detrez wrote: > I'm not sure if 'Western influences' (it almost sounds as if that's a bad > thing) are so detrimental to Tibetan culture. The preservation of Tibetan > culture and its study is largely thanks to the interest the West puts into > it (I'm thinking of Cabezon, Thurman, and Hopkins, to name a few, and major > publishers like Snow Lion and Shambhala) . A large part of the anti-Chinese > lobby - in this context - is in fact a Western engagement. The preservation and study of Tibetan Buddism is carried on far more by the Tibetans themselves than it is in the west - both in exile in India and Nepal and in Tibet itself. Tibetans have re-built or re established in exile most of the major monastic institutions, set up several universities and institutions and numerous monastic colleges devoted solely to this cause, set up a Tibetan education system in India and Nepal, reprinted innumerable traditional texts started journals and magazines, There are new institutes dedicated to Tibetan medicine, performing arts, visual arts, and music. Much of the funding for this has come from the Government of India, Tibetan businessmen, and Chines in Taiwan, Singapore and Malaysia - rather than from westerners. Sure what is going on in the west is important and impressive - but I don't kid yourself, it far more important to western Buddhists than it is to most of the Tibetans themselves - though there are a number of high profile lamas who enjoy living in or visiting the west. There are also a lot who have absolutely no interest in visiting the west. Many Tibetan lamas living in Tibet now have many Chinese followers - which I think could make for some interesting developments over the next ten or twenty years. - Chris From bshmr at aol.com Sun Dec 4 14:49:58 2011 From: bshmr at aol.com (Richard Basham) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2011 15:49:58 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Double-edged Message-ID: <1323035398.4238.21.camel@aims110> Appended are three polarized articles from my day. Each each has elements of awareness as well as its lack and yet convey some relevance, or so it seems to me. On a related note, I do expect more individuals will refuse to suffer more of current governance and society. IMNSHO, a few will make the penultimate complaint, the rest are more dangerous. Richard Basham http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/ed20111124a1.html EDITORIAL Aum crimes remain misted Thursday, Nov. 24, 2011 The Supreme Court on Monday upheld the Tokyo High Court's death sentence to former Aum Shinrikyo member Seiichi Endo for his involvement in two indiscriminate sarin gas attacks carried out by the Aum cult ? one in Matsumoto, Nagano Prefecture, on June 27, 1994, and the other in five trains on three subway lines in Tokyo on March 20, 1995. ... People should not forget the possibility that, given the current social and economic conditions in which young people see little hope, some may be attracted by organizations that appear to offer an easy way out of their difficulties while numbing their judgment with promises of "salvation," "enlightenment," etc. Such organizations must be monitored carefully. ** http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/rc20111127a1.html READERS IN COUNCIL The fruit of bad Buddhist habits By NYUNT SHWE; Tokyo; Sunday, Nov. 27, 2011 I fully agree with the responsible and most appropriate warning in the last paragraph of the Nov. 24 editorial, "Aum crimes remain misted": "People should not forget the possibility that, given the current social and economic conditions in which young people see little hope, some may be attracted by organizations that appear to offer an easy way out of their difficulties while numbing their judgment with promises of 'salvation,' 'enlightenment,' etc. Such organizations must be monitored carefully." I would even suggest retrials of some top Aum Shinrikyo leaders who are now free and continuing their Aum teachings in disguise. They should be locked up for life, if not executed outright. The state should disband all Aum-related fake-religious organizations. And a.ll Japanese people need to do some soul-searching. They should study Buddhism in depth and correct the practices of Japanese monks, such as drinking alcohol, playing games, committing adultery, keeping a wife and family, operating a business, etc. I have full respect for those Japanese monks who practice celibacy and meditation. ... http://www.livescience.com/17299-atheists-religious-zealots-believers.html Life's Extremes: Atheists vs. Believers Date:Today 08:20 Nature and nurture play roles in where a person ends up on this spectrum. ... From chris.fynn at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 22:42:11 2011 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 11:42:11 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Bourgeois Buddhism In-Reply-To: <86cf.4b114da2.3be984ac@aol.com> References: <86cf.4b114da2.3be984ac@aol.com> Message-ID: Hmm AFAIK - Buddhist monks actually only have to keep their precepts ~ and not one of the 250 or so of these actually enjoins them to meditate or study Buddhist philosophy. However there is a common belief amongst Asian Buddhists that when an ordained monk practices meditation, virtue or whatever it is at least 1,000x as effective. By that reckoning, if they do even 1% of the practice of the lay western members of your temple they are doing at least 10x more. :-) On 8 November 2011 00:59, wrote: > > In a message dated 11/7/2011 12:45:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, > rhayes at unm.edu writes: > > I've been working my fingers to the bone over here and have not had ?time > to look at buddha-l for weeks. Having read all of September's ?entries, > it appears I haven't missed much. I do have one question, though, ?for > Jack, who wrote this: > >> It has been my experience, limited ?though it might be, that the Western >> Buddhists I know follow the ?8-Fold Path while ethnic Buddhists I know do >> not. > > Just out of ?curiosity, which angas of the eightfold path do you see > people not ?following? Are you claiming they don't follow these limbs at > all, or that ?they are just not very good at them, or that they are > totally ignorant of ?what the limbs of the eightfold path are, or > something else? I am curious ?what exactly the observation you're making is. > ===================== > At two local Thera temples, at least 2/3's of the ethnic monks do ?not > meditate or are involved in any sort of mental development outside of ?formal > meditation, for example. I could go on with examples from other local ?ethnic > sanghas. > > jack From chris.fynn at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 22:57:37 2011 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 11:57:37 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] re Gombrich Lecture In-Reply-To: <4ebf1422.05c6640a.60b9.4711@mx.google.com> References: <4ebf1422.05c6640a.60b9.4711@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On 13 November 2011 06:49, Randall Jones wrote: > It's not my impression that any brand has a monopoly on right view. > Wrong view either for that matter. I used to think so, but something > happened. I guess I sort of do it cafeteria style now - take what I > can use and leave the rest. > > Randall Didn't Buddha copyright Right View? (as part of the Eightfold Path?) 500years before the Xtians? From chris.fynn at gmail.com Mon Dec 5 23:02:23 2011 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 12:02:23 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example In-Reply-To: <012001cc9ff3$d5adfac0$8109f040$@spro.net> References: <012001cc9ff3$d5adfac0$8109f040$@spro.net> Message-ID: On 11 November 2011 03:58, Jo wrote: > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MK10Df01.html > > ..The rich diversity in the various tellings of the Ramayana that Ramanujan > wrote about raised the hackles of the Hindu right in 2008, when activists of > the Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP), the student wing of the Sangh > Parivar (a family of Hindu right-wing organizations) vandalized Delhi > University's history department to protest against the teaching of this > essay, describing it as a "blasphemous" essay that was "malicious, > capricious, fallacious and offensive to the beliefs of millions of Hindus". I sometimes wonder how much of the intolerance of these contemporary Hindu groups is due to India's long exposure to intolerant Muslim and Christian regimes - from whom they seem to have to have learned a lot. From randall.bernard.jones at gmail.com Tue Dec 6 07:20:36 2011 From: randall.bernard.jones at gmail.com (Randall Jones) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 21:20:36 +0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] re Gombrich Lecture In-Reply-To: References: <4ebf1422.05c6640a.60b9.4711@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4ede250a.86b6320a.15d0.4a6f@mx.google.com> How stupid of me. Sorry. Randall At 12:57 PM 12/6/2011, you wrote: >On 13 November 2011 06:49, Randall Jones > wrote: > It's >not my impression that any brand has a monopoly >on right view. > Wrong view either for that >matter. I used to think so, but something > >happened. I guess I sort of do it cafeteria >style now - take what I > can use and leave the >rest. > > Randall Didn't Buddha copyright Right >View? (as part of the Eightfolld Path?) 500years >before the Xtians? >________________________________________________ >buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com >http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Tue Dec 6 10:39:07 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 10:39:07 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example In-Reply-To: References: <012001cc9ff3$d5adfac0$8109f040$@spro.net> Message-ID: <007e01ccb43d$f516f930$df44eb90$@spro.net> Chris--I just checked my sent file for 11/11 and there is no evidence that I sent this link from the AT to Buddha-L. Maybe I put it on some other list? I don't recall saying anything about this controversy here. If I DID send this to Buddha-L, please post the entire sent record. Joanna On Behalf Of Christopher Fynn Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011 11:02 PM On 11 November 2011 03:58, Jo wrote: > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MK10Df01.html > > ..The rich diversity in the various tellings of the Ramayana that > Ramanujan wrote about raised the hackles of the Hindu right in 2008, > when activists of the Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP), the > student wing of the Sangh Parivar (a family of Hindu right-wing > organizations) vandalized Delhi University's history department to > protest against the teaching of this essay, describing it as a > "blasphemous" essay that was "malicious, capricious, fallacious and offensive to the beliefs of millions of Hindus". I sometimes wonder how much of the intolerance of these contemporary Hindu groups is due to India's long exposure to intolerant Muslim and Christian regimes - from whom they seem to have to have learned a lot. _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Tue Dec 6 10:51:06 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 10:51:06 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example In-Reply-To: References: <012001cc9ff3$d5adfac0$8109f040$@spro.net> Message-ID: <008b01ccb43f$a15281a0$e3f784e0$@spro.net> Meanwhile, as I await evidence that I posted the below citation on Buddha-L, I'd like to respond to Chris's remark about possible Muslim or Christian origins of Hindu intolerance, as follows: History shows that denizens of India before the arrival of the Muslims and Christians nevertheless were intolerant of difference of various sorts: caste differences, sect differences, imperial ruler differences. There are signs of this in the Pali texts when competing sectarians came to argue with the Buddha; if they did not convert, they went away mad. (Of course, in those days there was no such thing as what we call Hinduism, today. But there was plenty of non-benign sectarianism going on.) Since then, with more documentation, there is zero evidence that Hindus were ever consistently 'tolerant'. See the Manushashtras, for a start. It just depended on which side bread was buttered in any given case, or on how much power the intolerants possessed to wreak their intolerance on others. Best, Joanna On 11 November 2011 03:58, Jo wrote: > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MK10Df01.html > > ..The rich diversity in the various tellings of the Ramayana that > Ramanujan wrote about raised the hackles of the Hindu right in 2008, > when activists of the Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP), the > student wing of the Sangh Parivar (a family of Hindu right-wing > organizations) vandalized Delhi University's history department to > protest against the teaching of this essay, describing it as a > "blasphemous" essay that was "malicious, capricious, fallacious and offensive to the beliefs of millions of Hindus". I sometimes wonder how much of the intolerance of these contemporary Hindu groups is due to India's long exposure to intolerant Muslim and Christian regimes - from whom they seem to have to have learned a lot. _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Tue Dec 6 10:59:31 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 10:59:31 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] re Gombrich Lecture In-Reply-To: <4ede250a.86b6320a.15d0.4a6f@mx.google.com> References: <4ebf1422.05c6640a.60b9.4711@mx.google.com> <4ede250a.86b6320a.15d0.4a6f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <009201ccb440$ce6bce20$6b436a60$@spro.net> Hm--isn't it possible that the concept of right view predated the Buddha, in some Jain texts? There are a lot of similarities between the two. Joanna On Behalf Of Randall Jones Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 7:21 AM How stupid of me. Sorry. Randall At 12:57 PM 12/6/2011, you wrote: >On 13 November 2011 06:49, Randall Jones > wrote: > It's not my impression that >any brand has a monopoly on right view. > Wrong view either for that >matter. I used to think so, but something > happened. I guess I sort of >do it cafeteria style now - take what I > can use and leave the rest. > >> Randall Didn't Buddha copyright Right ViewT (as part of the >Eightfolld PathT) 500years before the Xtians? >________________________________________________ >buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com >http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From gouin.me at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 00:30:41 2011 From: gouin.me at gmail.com (Margaret Gouin) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 08:30:41 +0100 Subject: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example In-Reply-To: <008b01ccb43f$a15281a0$e3f784e0$@spro.net> References: <012001cc9ff3$d5adfac0$8109f040$@spro.net> <008b01ccb43f$a15281a0$e3f784e0$@spro.net> Message-ID: According to the Archives, it appeared on the list on Nov. 10: *Thu Nov 10 14:58:09 MST 2011 *under the heading 'An "eastern" unquiet example' and is exactly what Chris posted, no more, no less. Cheers, Margaret On 6 December 2011 18:51, Jo wrote: > Meanwhile, as I await evidence that I posted the below citation on > Buddha-L, > I'd like to respond to Chris's remark about possible Muslim or Christian > origins of Hindu intolerance, as follows: > > History shows that denizens of India before the arrival of the Muslims and > Christians nevertheless were intolerant of difference of various sorts: > caste differences, sect differences, imperial ruler differences. There are > signs of this in the Pali texts when competing sectarians came to argue > with > the Buddha; if they did not convert, they went away mad. (Of course, in > those days there was no such thing as what we call Hinduism, today. But > there was plenty of non-benign sectarianism going on.) > > Since then, with more documentation, there is zero evidence that Hindus > were > ever consistently 'tolerant'. See the Manushashtras, for a start. It just > depended on which side bread was buttered in any given case, or on how much > power the intolerants possessed to wreak their intolerance on others. > > Best, > Joanna > > > On 11 November 2011 03:58, Jo wrote: > > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MK10Df01.html > > > > ..The rich diversity in the various tellings of the Ramayana that > > Ramanujan wrote about raised the hackles of the Hindu right in 2008, > > when activists of the Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP), the > > student wing of the Sangh Parivar (a family of Hindu right-wing > > organizations) vandalized Delhi University's history department to > > protest against the teaching of this essay, describing it as a > > "blasphemous" essay that was "malicious, capricious, fallacious and > offensive to the beliefs of millions of Hindus". > > I sometimes wonder how much of the intolerance of these contemporary Hindu > groups is due to India's long exposure to intolerant Muslim and Christian > regimes - from whom they seem to have to have learned a lot. > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > -- Margaret Gouin http://independent.academia.edu/ad3b Author, Tibetan Rituals of Death : Buddhist funerary practices From Jackhat1 at aol.com Wed Dec 7 13:33:24 2011 From: Jackhat1 at aol.com (Jackhat1 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 15:33:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Buddha-l] Bourgeois Buddhism Message-ID: <1b4a7.157d5f51.3c112794@aol.com> Interesting that they don't have to follow the 8-Fold Path or know much of the Buddha's teachings. Jack In a message dated 12/5/2011 11:42:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, chris.fynn at gmail.com writes: Hmm AFAIK - Buddhist monks actually only have to keep their precepts ~ and not one of the 250 or so of these actually enjoins them to meditate or study Buddhist philosophy. However there is a common belief amongst Asian Buddhists that when an ordained monk practices meditation, virtue or whatever it is at least 1,000x as effective. By that reckoning, if they do even 1% of the practice of the lay western members of your temple they are doing at least 10x more. :-) From elihusmith at yahoo.com Wed Dec 7 13:49:35 2011 From: elihusmith at yahoo.com (Elihu Smith) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 12:49:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Buddha-l] Nepal Buddhists demonstrate against Maoist leader Message-ID: <1323290975.20756.YahooMailClassic@web81907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> For those who missed this: Nepal Buddhists demonstrate against Maoist leaderDec 7, 2011, 12:46 GMT http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/southasia/news/article_1679429.php/Nepal-Buddhists-demonstrate-against-Maoist-leader?Kathmandu - Hundreds of Buddhists staged a protest in the Nepalese capital, Kathmandu, Wednesday, to protest against Maoist Chief Pushpa Kamal Dahal's connection to a development project in Lumbini, the birthplace of Buddha.Lhakpa Sherpa of the Buddhism Preservation Stakeholders Committee said politicians were breaching the sanctity of a religious place like Lumbini by transforming it into a tourism destination.The committee was formed by the government to develop Lumbini, 240 kilometres southwewest of Kathmandu, as a world Buddhist tourism destination.Demonstrators held placards demanding Dahal be removed from the position of director of the Lumbini Development Committee. They have demanded a follower of Buddhism should be appointed to the post.Dahal, who is coordinator of the development committee, lead the decade-long Maoist insurgency in Nepal, which ended in 2006 after the signing of a peace deal with the government. 16,000 people were killed in the conflict. From jkirk at spro.net Wed Dec 7 15:02:19 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 15:02:19 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example In-Reply-To: References: <012001cc9ff3$d5adfac0$8109f040$@spro.net> <008b01ccb43f$a15281a0$e3f784e0$@spro.net> Message-ID: <001201ccb52b$e461af10$ad250d30$@spro.net> Thanks I looked under the Nov 11th date in my sent file, since that is the date Chris's post said I posted it. Joanna -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Gouin Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:31 AM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example According to the Archives, it appeared on the list on Nov. 10: *Thu Nov 10 14:58:09 MST 2011 *under the heading 'An "eastern" unquiet example' and is exactly what Chris posted, no more, no less. Cheers, Margaret On 6 December 2011 18:51, Jo wrote: > Meanwhile, as I await evidence that I posted the below citation on > Buddha-L, I'd like to respond to Chris's remark about possible Muslim > or Christian origins of Hindu intolerance, as follows: > > History shows that denizens of India before the arrival of the Muslims > and Christians nevertheless were intolerant of difference of various sorts: > caste differences, sect differences, imperial ruler differences. > There are signs of this in the Pali texts when competing sectarians > came to argue with the Buddha; if they did not convert, they went away > mad. (Of course, in those days there was no such thing as what we call > Hinduism, today. But there was plenty of non-benign sectarianism going > on.) > > Since then, with more documentation, there is zero evidence that > Hindus were ever consistently 'tolerant'. See the Manushashtras, for a > start. It just depended on which side bread was buttered in any given > case, or on how much power the intolerants possessed to wreak their > intolerance on others. > > Best, > Joanna > > > On 11 November 2011 03:58, Jo wrote: > > http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/MK10Df01.html > > > > ..The rich diversity in the various tellings of the Ramayana that > > Ramanujan wrote about raised the hackles of the Hindu right in 2008, > > when activists of the Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP), the > > student wing of the Sangh Parivar (a family of Hindu right-wing > > organizations) vandalized Delhi University's history department to > > protest against the teaching of this essay, describing it as a > > "blasphemous" essay that was "malicious, capricious, fallacious and > offensive to the beliefs of millions of Hindus". > > I sometimes wonder how much of the intolerance of these contemporary > Hindu groups is due to India's long exposure to intolerant Muslim and > Christian regimes - from whom they seem to have to have learned a lot. > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > -- Margaret Gouin http://independent.academia.edu/ad3b Author, Tibetan Rituals of Death : Buddhist funerary practices _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From gbungo at earthlink.net Wed Dec 7 15:22:04 2011 From: gbungo at earthlink.net (Gregory Bungo) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 16:22:04 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example Message-ID: <23972748.1323296525057.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hi, Perhaps this is a timezone issue. One person's Nov. 11 is another person's Nov. 10. Temporally, Greg Bungo -----Original Message----- >From: Jo >Sent: Dec 7, 2011 4:02 PM >To: 'Buddhist discussion forum' >Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example > >Thanks > >I looked under the Nov 11th date in my sent file, since that is the date >Chris's post said I posted it. >Joanna > >-----Original Message----- >From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com >[mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Gouin >Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:31 AM >To: Buddhist discussion forum >Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example > >According to the Archives, it appeared on the list on Nov. 10: >*Thu Nov 10 14:58:09 MST 2011 >*under the heading 'An "eastern" unquiet example' >and is exactly what Chris posted, no more, no less. >Cheers, >Margaret > From jkirk at spro.net Wed Dec 7 15:59:41 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 15:59:41 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example In-Reply-To: <23972748.1323296525057.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <23972748.1323296525057.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003701ccb533$e7e62140$b7b263c0$@spro.net> Hey--that might be the answer......... "time, you old gypsy man.........." joanna -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Gregory Bungo Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 3:22 PM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example Hi, Perhaps this is a timezone issue. One person's Nov. 11 is another person's Nov. 10. Temporally, Greg Bungo -----Original Message----- >From: Jo >Sent: Dec 7, 2011 4:02 PM >To: 'Buddhist discussion forum' >Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example > >Thanks > >I looked under the Nov 11th date in my sent file, since that is the >date Chris's post said I posted it. >Joanna > >-----Original Message----- >From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com >[mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Gouin >Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:31 AM >To: Buddhist discussion forum >Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example > >According to the Archives, it appeared on the list on Nov. 10: >*Thu Nov 10 14:58:09 MST 2011 >*under the heading 'An "eastern" unquiet example' >and is exactly what Chris posted, no more, no less. >Cheers, >Margaret > _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From chris.fynn at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 21:56:58 2011 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:56:58 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] An "eastern" unquiet example In-Reply-To: <003701ccb533$e7e62140$b7b263c0$@spro.net> References: <23972748.1323296525057.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <003701ccb533$e7e62140$b7b263c0$@spro.net> Message-ID: On 8 December 2011 04:05, Jo wrote: > Chris > The issue was the date I was said othave posted this--you posted it as Nov 11th--Margaret now says I posted it on Nov 10th--I searched my Sent file for the 11th-- that's why I didn't find it. On 8 December 2011 04:22, Gregory Bungo wrote: > Hi, > > Perhaps this is a timezone issue. One person's Nov. 11 is > another person's Nov. 10. > > Temporally, > > Greg Bungo On 8 December 2011 04:59, Jo wrote: > Hey--that might be the answer......... > "time, you old gypsy man.........." Yes Gregory seems right - I'm in Bhutan where the time is 6 hours ahead of GMT and even further ahead of American timezones. - Chris From chris.fynn at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 22:49:56 2011 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 11:49:56 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Bourgeois Buddhism In-Reply-To: <1b4a7.157d5f51.3c112794@aol.com> References: <1b4a7.157d5f51.3c112794@aol.com> Message-ID: Westerners generally expect anyone who is "ordained" and wearing religious robes to have studied at a seminary or something prior to ordination. But almost any man can become ordained as Buddhist monk without any educational qualification and little if any knowlege of the Buddha's teachings. However I think taking and keeping the precepts of a Buddhist monk is usually seen as a form of practice which, in itself, encompass the 8-Fold Path - and, from that viewpoint, you could say these monks are practicing. - C On 8 December 2011 02:33, wrote: > Interesting that they don't have to follow the 8-Fold Path or know much of > the Buddha's teachings. > > Jack > > In a message dated 12/5/2011 11:42:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, > chris.fynn at gmail.com writes: > > Hmm > > AFAIK - Buddhist monks actually only have to keep their ?precepts ~ and > not one of the 250 or so of these actually enjoins them to ?meditate or > study Buddhist philosophy. However there is a common belief ?amongst > Asian Buddhists that when an ordained monk practices ?meditation, > virtue or whatever it is at least 1,000x as effective. By ?that > reckoning, if they do even 1% of the practice of the lay ?western > members of your temple they are ?doing at least 10x more. ?:-) From bernie.simon at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 18:24:24 2011 From: bernie.simon at gmail.com (Bernard Simon) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 20:24:24 -0500 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? Message-ID: <3948D291-1344-49E2-B3D4-629901E47057@gmai.com> The way Libre Office handles Tibetan ligatures is sad. Any Linux WP suggestions ? From chris.fynn at gmail.com Fri Dec 9 23:59:09 2011 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 12:59:09 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? In-Reply-To: <3948D291-1344-49E2-B3D4-629901E47057@gmai.com> References: <3948D291-1344-49E2-B3D4-629901E47057@gmai.com> Message-ID: Bernard I haven't yet tried Libre Office - but since OpenOffice works fine, it seems odd that Libre Office has regressed. What font are you using - and which ligatures don't work? - Chris On 10 December 2011 07:24, Bernard Simon wrote: > The way Libre Office handles Tibetan ligatures is sad. Any Linux WP > suggestions ? > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From ralf.steckel at online.ms Sun Dec 11 07:04:48 2011 From: ralf.steckel at online.ms (Ralf Steckel) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 15:04:48 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? Message-ID: <619370737.1260059.1323612288575.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb006> Dear Forum, just a remark about the technical "divergence" between OpenOffice and Libre Office - without any comment about the "usability" as word processor for Tibetan fonts... OpenOffice and Libre Office now are so different from the source code basis, that it is technical almost impossible to merge the two branches to a common version (if that would be wanted for some reason in the future again). Libre Office has some security issues - (important for users, who use it on a different platform than a Linux / Unix derivate), which are fixed in OpenOffice. My personal recommendation would be, to stay with OpenOffice - as long as it is possible... The reference for my above statements is somewhere in the archives for one of the online magazines at http://www.heise.de/ . Kind Regards, Ralf Steckel >Von: "Christopher Fynn" Bernard I haven't yet tried Libre Office - but since OpenOffice works fine, it seems odd that Libre Office has regressed. What font are you using - and which ligatures don't work? - Chris On 10 December 2011 07:24, Bernard Simon wrote: > The way Libre Office handles Tibetan ligatures is sad. Any Linux WP > suggestions ? From bjlhundrup at yahoo.com Fri Dec 9 19:16:26 2011 From: bjlhundrup at yahoo.com (bruce quarles) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 18:16:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Buddha-l] University Studies of Mipham In-Reply-To: <001201ccb52b$e461af10$ad250d30$@spro.net> Message-ID: <1323483386.12515.YahooMailClassic@web126004.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Who here is teaching in their class any of Mipham's text and views? ? And who is studying them in any of their courses? ? Could you add where or what places are using these texts, and maybe even which ones. ? thank you BJ Lhundrup From simonjwiles at gmail.com Sun Dec 11 13:32:52 2011 From: simonjwiles at gmail.com (Simon Wiles) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 12:32:52 -0800 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? In-Reply-To: <619370737.1260059.1323612288575.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb006> References: <619370737.1260059.1323612288575.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb006> Message-ID: <1323635572.3275.9.camel@simon-m4600-lmde> Hi folks, I think the security issues Ralf was referring to were fixed before they were announced, weren't they? (http://www.libreoffice.org/advisories/CVE-2011-2713) I switched to LibreOffice over a year ago now. I've actually been a little disappointed with how little it's diverged from OpenOffice in that time. Really the only things they've done are bug fixes and code optimisations, and the merging of a suite of widely-used patches into the trunk. I've not had any problems with Tibetan ligatures, with one exception, which is when trying to use the Monlam fonts. They don't follow the standard Unicode conventions, and seem to rely for ligatures on some kind of OTF glyph-substitution table that LibreOffice (and OpenOffice) don't recognize. It's a curious one. All other Unicode Tibetan fonts I've used work fine, however. To answer Bernard's direct question, the two mainstream alternatives that are generally offered to OpenOffice/LibreOffice are Lotus Symphony (http://www-03.ibm.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/home), and GoogleDocs. Neither is preferable to using LibreOffice though, in my opinion. simon On Sun, 2011-12-11 at 15:04 +0100, Ralf Steckel wrote: > Dear Forum, > > just a remark about the technical "divergence" between OpenOffice and Libre Office - without any comment about the "usability" as word processor for Tibetan fonts... > > OpenOffice and Libre Office now are so different from the source code basis, that it is technical almost impossible to merge the two branches to a common version (if that would be wanted for some reason in the future again). > > Libre Office has some security issues - (important for users, who use it on a different platform than a Linux / Unix derivate), which are fixed in OpenOffice. > > My personal recommendation would be, to stay with OpenOffice - as long as it is possible... > > The reference for my above statements is somewhere in the archives for one of the online magazines at http://www.heise.de/ . > > Kind Regards, > > Ralf Steckel > > >Von: "Christopher Fynn" > > Bernard > > I haven't yet tried Libre Office - but since OpenOffice works fine, it > seems odd that Libre Office has regressed. > > What font are you using - and which ligatures don't work? > > - Chris > > On 10 December 2011 07:24, Bernard Simon wrote: > > The way Libre Office handles Tibetan ligatures is sad. Any Linux WP > > suggestions ? > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From bernie.simon at gmail.com Sun Dec 11 18:37:11 2011 From: bernie.simon at gmail.com (Bernard Simon) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 20:37:11 -0500 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? Message-ID: Since I started this controversy, I thought I should clear things up. I'm planning on replacing my Mac with a Dell running Ubuntu Linux, so I am making sure it can do everything I need. When I first experimented with Libre Office I had problems, both with ligatures and selecting text by the usual mouse click and drag. After reading Chris's reply this morning I tried again and couldn't duplicate the problems. So chalk it all up to user error. Here's a bit about how Tibetan Unicode is handled on Ubuntu Linux. Converting keystrokes to unicode characters is handled by a program called Ibus, which is not enabled by default, but which can be enabled through the system administration interface. Ubuntu does not ship with Tibetan fonts, but free fonts are available and easy to install. Ubuntu Linux ships with Libre Office, a fork of Open Office, one of several that happened after Oracle bought out Sun Computer and inherited (and mismanaged) its open source efforts. I find that it's overkill for my needs and I am going to use Abiword, which does not ship with Ubuntu, but is a one click install through its interface. It handles Tibetan at least as well as Libre/Open Office, starts up faster, and handles basic word processing (which is all I need.) From jkirk at spro.net Sun Dec 11 19:09:46 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:09:46 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? In-Reply-To: <1323635572.3275.9.camel@simon-m4600-lmde> References: <619370737.1260059.1323612288575.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb006> <1323635572.3275.9.camel@simon-m4600-lmde> Message-ID: <013001ccb873$1f04f470$5d0edd50$@spro.net> God! You techies are impressive. I haven't a clue---recently upgraded to win 7. My computer helper finally told me where Properties was. Digital stuff for me is a lesson in..........hm.......... anicca? Joanna ------------------------------------------ On Behalf Of Simon Wiles Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 1:33 PM Hi folks, I think the security issues Ralf was referring to were fixed before they were announced, weren't they? (http://www.libreoffice.org/advisories/CVE-2011-2713) I switched to LibreOffice over a year ago now. I've actually been a little disappointed with how little it's diverged from OpenOffice in that time. Really the only things they've done are bug fixes and code optimisations, and the merging of a suite of widely-used patches into the trunk. I've not had any problems with Tibetan ligatures, with one exception, which is when trying to use the Monlam fonts. They don't follow the standard Unicode conventions, and seem to rely for ligatures on some kind of OTF glyph-substitution table that LibreOffice (and OpenOffice) don't recognize. It's a curious one. All other Unicode Tibetan fonts I've used work fine, however. To answer Bernard's direct question, the two mainstream alternatives that are generally offered to OpenOffice/LibreOffice are Lotus Symphony (http://www-03.ibm.com/software/lotus/symphony/home.nsf/home), and GoogleDocs. Neither is preferable to using LibreOffice though, in my opinion. simon On Sun, 2011-12-11 at 15:04 +0100, Ralf Steckel wrote: > Dear Forum, > > just a remark about the technical "divergence" between OpenOffice and Libre Office - without any comment about the "usability" as word processor for Tibetan fonts... > > OpenOffice and Libre Office now are so different from the source code basis, that it is technical almost impossible to merge the two branches to a common version (if that would be wanted for some reason in the future again). > > Libre Office has some security issues - (important for users, who use it on a different platform than a Linux / Unix derivate), which are fixed in OpenOffice. > > My personal recommendation would be, to stay with OpenOffice - as long as it is possible... > > The reference for my above statements is somewhere in the archives for one of the online magazines at http://www.heise.de/ . > > Kind Regards, > > Ralf Steckel > > >Von: "Christopher Fynn" > > Bernard > > I haven't yet tried Libre Office - but since OpenOffice works fine, it > seems odd that Libre Office has regressed. > > What font are you using - and which ligatures don't work? > > - Chris > > On 10 December 2011 07:24, Bernard Simon wrote: > > The way Libre Office handles Tibetan ligatures is sad. Any Linux WP > > suggestions ? > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Sun Dec 11 19:21:11 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:21:11 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <013c01ccb874$b7b5bdc0$27213940$@spro.net> Wow! ------------------------- On Behalf Of Bernard Simon Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 6:37 PM Since I started this controversy, I thought I should clear things up. I'm planning on replacing my Mac with a Dell running Ubuntu Linux, so I am making sure it can do everything I need. When I first experimented with Libre Office I had problems, both with ligatures and selecting text by the usual mouse click and drag. After reading Chris's reply this morning I tried again and couldn't duplicate the problems. So chalk it all up to user error. Here's a bit about how Tibetan Unicode is handled on Ubuntu Linux. Converting keystrokes to unicode characters is handled by a program called Ibus, which is not enabled by default, but which can be enabled through the system administration interface. Ubuntu does not ship with Tibetan fonts, but free fonts are available and easy to install. Ubuntu Linux ships with Libre Office, a fork of Open Office, one of several that happened after Oracle bought out Sun Computer and inherited (and mismanaged) its open source efforts. I find that it's overkill for my needs and I am going to use Abiword, which does not ship with Ubuntu, but is a one click install through its interface. It handles Tibetan at least as well as Libre/Open Office, starts up faster, and handles basic word processing (which is all I need.) _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From bernie.simon at gmail.com Mon Dec 12 18:54:20 2011 From: bernie.simon at gmail.com (Bernard Simon) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 20:54:20 -0500 Subject: [Buddha-l] buddha-l Digest, Vol 82, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <667DF3E9-91DD-4EEB-A3D4-2E7DD706FE81@gmai.com> On Dec 12, 2011, at 2:00 PM, buddha-l-request at mailman.swcp.com wrote: > They don't follow the standard > Unicode conventions, and seem to rely for ligatures on some kind of > OTF > glyph-substitution table that LibreOffice (and OpenOffice) don't > recognize. > It's a curious one. All other Unicode Tibetan fonts I've used work > fine, > however. In my reading I discovered that Macintosh uses a different method for indicating where ligatures are attached than Windows and Linux. So fonts made just for the Macintosh will not work for other systems. but it is possible to make fonts with both sets information that will work on all three systems. From chris.fynn at gmail.com Mon Dec 12 22:23:00 2011 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:23:00 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? In-Reply-To: <619370737.1260059.1323612288575.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb006> References: <619370737.1260059.1323612288575.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb006> Message-ID: On 11 December 2011 20:04, Ralf Steckel wrote: > My personal recommendation would be, to stay with OpenOffice - as long as it is possible... Hi Ralf Since Oracle have now handed over OpenOffice to the Apache Foundation is there still any good reason to prefer LibreOffice? - or is OpenOffice, as such, now more or less dead? I spent a lot of time and effort trying to get users in Bhutan to use OpenOffice instead of MS Word - especially for Dzongkha and Tibetan - it is actually quite difficult to try and get them to use something with a different name now since it is hard to explain to ordinary users why such a split occured. BTW Some time ago I made a page on using OpenOffice with Dzongkha (and Tibetan) which can be found here: There is also a page I made on using Dzongkha with Ubuntu Linux - which applies to Tibetan as well since both languages use the same script. - Chris From chris.fynn at gmail.com Tue Dec 13 12:38:09 2011 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 01:38:09 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] buddha-l Digest, Vol 82, Issue 10 In-Reply-To: <667DF3E9-91DD-4EEB-A3D4-2E7DD706FE81@gmai.com> References: <667DF3E9-91DD-4EEB-A3D4-2E7DD706FE81@gmai.com> Message-ID: On 13 December 2011 07:54, Bernard Simon wrote: > In my reading I discovered that Macintosh uses a different method for > indicating where ligatures are attached than Windows and Linux. So > fonts made just for the Macintosh will not work for other systems. but > it is possible to make fonts with both sets information that will work > on all three systems. Mac OSX now supports OpenType as well as their own ATSUI format fonts and, if you make Open Type look-ups in a font in the right way, the font will now work on Windows, Linux and Mac. No need for any Mac specific tables. There is also a way of making the OpenType tables in a Tibetan font work with any version of Adobes InDesign CS3 and above as well. (Adobe applications use their own rendering engines rather than the one available from the operating system). If anyone actually wants to know how to do this they can contact me. Tibetan fonts made specifically for the Mac won't work under Windows - they may work in some applications under Linux, depending on which rendering engine is being used by the application. The Monlam Tibetan fonts may give problems since they have a number of serious errors in the way they are encoded. As far as I can tell, these fonts mostly originate from non-Unicode Tibetan fonts originally made in China which he has adapted to Unicode by pasting the glyphs into another Unicode Tibetan font which he has used as a kind of template. The actual glyph outlines are point for point identical to some old commercial Tibetan fonts made in China. - Chris From bernie.simon at gmail.com Tue Dec 13 18:59:20 2011 From: bernie.simon at gmail.com (Bernard Simon) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 20:59:20 -0500 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74B6D71A-BFE4-490B-9738-5D0CF4C8254C@gmai.com> On Dec 13, 2011, at 2:00 PM, buddha-l-request at mailman.swcp.com wrote: > Since Oracle have now handed over OpenOffice to the Apache Foundation > is there still any good reason to prefer LibreOffice? - or is > OpenOffice, as such, now more or less dead? Both Open Office and Libre Office should work fine, use whatever is better supported by your Linux distribution. For Ubuntu, that's Libre Office. Most of the development effort has moved to Libre Office. It remains to be seen if Oracle will continue to develop Open Office, or whether it is abandon ware. Personally, I'm sticking with Abiword until I see reason to switch. From rhayes at unm.edu Tue Dec 13 21:18:17 2011 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:18:17 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? Message-ID: Bernie Simon wrote: > Personally, I'm sticking with Abiword until I see reason to switch. That's a good policy, for all the reasons you have been stating. Abiword is great for relatively simple word processing. Have any of you had experience typesetting Tibetan or Sanskrit using the xeLaTeX macros? I had a bunch of Sanskrit material that I had typeset about fifteen years ago using EDMACS in plain TeX, which of course works well on all platforms. When LEDMACS came out for LaTeX, I found it was quite simple to put all my work into LEDMACS. And then xeLaTeX looked like the way to go for languages using scripts other than the Latin alphabet. I found xeLaTeX a bit frustrating at first, because I didn't properly understand how to make font calls, but once I got the hang of it (by availing myself of files Dominik Wujastyk had kindly put on the web), I found it really nice to work with. What I love about LaTeX is that it is relatively stable. New implementations are almost always fully backwards compatible. In contrast, I have a book and a whole bunch of lecture notes and articles that I processed using Final Word and its successor, Sprint, and some stuff in early versions of Word that are almost perfectly unusable now. All the work that went into producing those things has gone pretty much down the drain, along with the rest of my misspent youth. Richard From simonjwiles at gmail.com Tue Dec 13 21:32:58 2011 From: simonjwiles at gmail.com (Simon Wiles) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 20:32:58 -0800 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1323837178.3712.20.camel@simon-m4600-lmde> On Tue, 2011-12-13 at 21:18 -0700, Richard Hayes wrote: > Have any of you had experience typesetting Tibetan or Sanskrit using the xeLaTeX macros? I had a bunch of Sanskrit material that I had typeset about fifteen years ago using EDMACS in plain TeX, which of course works well on all platforms. When LEDMACS came out for LaTeX, I found it was quite simple to put all my work into LEDMACS. And then xeLaTeX looked like the way to go for languages using scripts other than the Latin alphabet. I found xeLaTeX a bit frustrating at first, because I didn't properly understand how to make font calls, but once I got the hang of it (by availing myself of files Dominik Wujastyk had kindly put on the web), I found it really nice to work with. LaTeX/XeLaTeX is very powerful, especially for proper publishing tasks, where the FOSS offering is not particularly strong (Scribus doesn't really cut the mustard (yet!), unfortunately). If you combine XeLaTeX with LyX, you can get a nice comfortable environment set up quite easily. > What I love about LaTeX is that it is relatively stable. New implementations are almost always fully backwards compatible. In contrast, I have a book and a whole bunch of lecture notes and articles that I processed using Final Word and its successor, Sprint, and some stuff in early versions of Word that are almost perfectly unusable now. All the work that went into producing those things has gone pretty much down the drain, along with the rest of my misspent youth. OOo/LO has a LaTeX export filter which is surprisingly good (http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/writer2latex-1), and can offer something of the best of both worlds. simon From rhayes at unm.edu Wed Dec 14 20:37:04 2011 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 20:37:04 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? In-Reply-To: <1323837178.3712.20.camel@simon-m4600-lmde> References: <1323837178.3712.20.camel@simon-m4600-lmde> Message-ID: On Dec 13, 2011, at 21:32 , Simon Wiles wrote: > If you combine XeLaTeX > with LyX, you can get a nice comfortable environment set up quite > easily. I've used LyX and liked it. These days I'm using TeXworks and texstudio, both of which are very nice. As for using Abiword, OpenOffice or LibreOffice to generate LaTeX code, I confess to having done it, but I find that method just doesn't build character in the way that grappling with LaTeX code does. Having attractive output isn't my only goal; I also want a markup language that is so difficult to use that it burns off bad karma. (I'm a closet Jain.) When I am not feeling my ascetic oats, I sometimes use markdown instead of markup. But I'm afraid to use it too much, lest I grow attached to a life of ease and luxury. Richard From stroble at hawaii.edu Wed Dec 14 22:17:27 2011 From: stroble at hawaii.edu (andy) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:17:27 -1000 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? In-Reply-To: <17634_1323920256_4EE96B7F_17634_5215_1_E3905B40-23F2-48A9-AA4E-A90044A52256@unm.edu> References: <1323837178.3712.20.camel@simon-m4600-lmde> <17634_1323920256_4EE96B7F_17634_5215_1_E3905B40-23F2-48A9-AA4E-A90044A52256@unm.edu> Message-ID: <201112141917.29322.stroble@hawaii.edu> > On Dec 13, 2011, at 21:32 , Simon Wiles wrote: > > If you combine XeLaTeX > > with LyX, you can get a nice comfortable environment set up quite > > easily. > > I've used LyX and liked it. These days I'm using TeXworks and texstudio, > both of which are very nice. As for using Abiword, OpenOffice or > LibreOffice to generate LaTeX code, I confess to having done it, but I > find that method just doesn't build character in the way that grappling > with LaTeX code does. Having attractive output isn't my only goal; I also > want a markup language that is so difficult to use that it burns off bad > karma. (I'm a closet Jain.) When I am not feeling my ascetic oats, I > sometimes use markdown instead of markup. But I'm afraid to use it too > much, lest I grow attached to a life of ease and luxury. > > Richard > Ah, I knew there was hope for those of us trapped in the multilingual hell of comparative studies! I don't even know how to typeset Sanscrit, let alone Tibetan, so I will go off and try to get in the Logic symbols for my final exam. That should both burn off karma, and create a whole bunch more. Sorry. -- James Andy Stroble, PhD Lecturer in Philosophy Department of Arts & Humanities Leeward Community College University of Hawaii Adjunct Faculty Diplomatic and Military Studies Hawaii Pacific University _________________ "The cyber world has grown out of control. State and national law enforcement mechanisms are not equipped to deal with the rapidly evolving threat. The complexity of information systems has far exceeded the ability to secure them, while reliance on these systems has only increased. HBGary has an intimate understanding of this problem; We know that understanding the attacker and his methods is the only way to defeat him. This is the core strength of HBGary and why our technology and services outperform the competition. To us, it's personal. And we would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for those meddling kids!!!" February, 2011 From bernie.simon at gmail.com Thu Dec 15 14:10:28 2011 From: bernie.simon at gmail.com (Bernie Simon) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:10:28 -0500 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Have any of you had experience typesetting Tibetan or Sanskrit using the >xeLaTeX macros? I had a > bunch of Sanskrit material that I had typeset about fifteen years ago >using EDMACS in plain TeX, which > of course works well on all platforms. Yes, I think LaTeX's strength is as an archival format. But I'm looking toward epub for archiving documents. While the standard will continue to evolve, since it's based on xhtml, new versions should be backwards compatible. Libre Office and Abiword will write xhtml, which is easy to convert to epub. > I also want a markup language that is so difficult to use that it burns >off bad karma. You should write TeX macros, that will get you to nirvana in a hurry. From gouin.me at gmail.com Fri Dec 16 04:35:51 2011 From: gouin.me at gmail.com (Margaret Gouin) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 06:35:51 -0500 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: LibreOffice has an extention (originally designed for OpenOffice) which converts directly to epub format: http://writer2epub.en.softonic.com/ I've only tried it with english-language documents, works fine there. Margaret On 15 December 2011 16:10, Bernie Simon wrote: > > Yes, I think LaTeX's strength is as an archival format. But I'm looking > toward epub for archiving documents. While the standard will continue to > evolve, since it's based on xhtml, new versions should be backwards > compatible. Libre Office and Abiword will write xhtml, which is easy to > convert to epub. > -- Margaret Gouin http://independent.academia.edu/ad3b Author, Tibetan Rituals of Death : Buddhist funerary practices From rhayes at unm.edu Fri Dec 16 07:39:41 2011 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 07:39:41 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 16, 2011, at 4:35 AM, Margaret Gouin wrote: > LibreOffice has an extention (originally designed for OpenOffice) which > converts directly to epub format: http://writer2epub.en.softonic.com/ > I've only tried it with english-language documents, works fine there. There are also several ways to convert LaTeX files to ePub format. One way is to generate XHTML output and then convert that to ePub. Another is to generate an ePub directly from the command line by using pandoc. See http://johnmacfarlane.net/pandoc/ I have used calibre to convert PDF to ePub, but the results are not very encouraging. Many PDF files end up being treated as jpeg, which is static and can't be annotated, highlighted or resized in the way that most ePub documents can. That is especially the case with PDF files that are the result of scanning. I just finished a course in which every reading was from on-line journal articles. More and more I find myself facing a room filled with students doing their reading and note taking on iPads, Nook readers, kindles and (for really old-fashioned types) laptops. It's been years since I last saw a student use a ballpoint and a pad of paper. Richard > From ralf.steckel at online.ms Sun Dec 18 11:57:20 2011 From: ralf.steckel at online.ms (Ralf Steckel) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 19:57:20 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Buddha-l] Linux WP for Tibetan? Message-ID: <920234223.3978873.1324234640093.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb002> Hi Chris, Jo et. al. , please excuse me for late reply - i really was busy... ?? ? From sugar.mathura at gmail.com Sat Dec 24 00:41:48 2011 From: sugar.mathura at gmail.com (Sugar Mathura) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 14:41:48 +0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Invitation to Join World Inner Peace Project Message-ID: Dear All, Invitation to all of you. Merry X-Mas & Happy New Year Sugar Mathura ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: nittaya limlert Date: Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 9:03 AM Subject: Invitation to Join Daily Free Online Meditation The World Inner Peace Project is happy to announce that we are having daily free online meditation classes starting December 22, 2011. Please see the attached schedules to determine the best time you can join us. Please use the "Time Zone Converter" from the following link to find out the exact day and time at your location. http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html Instruction how to login 1. Go to www.wipeace.org 2. Click at Banner ?Inner Peace Channel 1? 3. Fill in ?Your Name? as the following code: Country-Name-No. of people at your connection-City For Example: User Name: USA-John-1-Los Angeles (We would like to know how many people are joining Online Meditation Class and where they are from.) 4. Fill in ?Room Password?: innerpeace072 Our meeting room is called ?Inner Peace Channel 1?. Please help inform all branches center and anyone you know to join the upcoming free online medication class. We look forward to your participation and rejoice in your merits. Thank you and kind regards, Sue Tanguthaisuk Email: innerpeace.channel at gmail.com ?The key to peace and happiness lies in its simplicity. To find peace and happiness, one only needs to close one?s eyes and become still. By taking time for reflection, by being silent, we can find the stillness of inner peace?. From jkirk at spro.net Mon Dec 26 20:14:37 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:14:37 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Good wishes for the new Year, to all Message-ID: <000901ccc445$aac422f0$004c68d0$@spro.net> I just came across this website, featuring a film about Shaolin monks who stayed behind in the US and founded their own schools. It was screened on PBS's Independent Lens but I missed it. Did anybody here see the film? http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/shaolinulysses/monks.html Joanna From rhayes at unm.edu Tue Dec 27 15:02:08 2011 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 15:02:08 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries Message-ID: As 2011 draws to a close, buddha-l celebrates the twentieth anniversary of its founding in the autumn of 1991, and the tenth anniversary of the "buddhist" and "buddha-l" lists being collapsed into a single list that incorporates the vices of both and the virtues of neither. Hardly a days goes by that I don't think it's time for buddha-l to become impermanent, but it keeps sluggishly plodding along. For those of you who have forgotten the history of buddha-l (or its predecessor, buddhist at jpntohok), an idiosyncratic account of the early days is to be found on an old website that also should be dead by now but keeps limping along like a vampire in search of a stake to be driven through its heart: http://home.comcast.net/~dayamati/history.html All the merry crew of elves who sleep in the control room of buddha-l wish all you subscribers a pleasant and prosperous 2012. May you all get a life. Richard From roger60 at golden-wheel.net Tue Dec 27 16:15:36 2011 From: roger60 at golden-wheel.net (Roger60) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 09:15:36 +1000 Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004801ccc4ed$7430a4e0$5c91eea0$@net> Good day and thanks Richard ! First let me wish you and your family and all members of buddha-l a very Happy New Year 2012 with an excellent health, unlimited prosperity and happiness, with an ever clear clean mind radiating love and compassion towards all sentient beings.. Enjoy the summer holidays ! Bonjour et merci Richard, D?abord permettez-moi de vous pr?senter, ? vous-m?me et ? v?tre famille ainsi qu'? tous les membres de buddha-l, un tr?s Joyeux No?l et une tr?s Heureuse Nouvelle Ann?e 2012, avec une excellente sant?, une prosp?rit? sans limite, le bonheur et un esprit toujours clair et sans t?che ?manant l?amour et la compassion pour tous les ?tres sensibles. Profitez bien des vacances d??t? ! Roger Garin-Michaud teaching French in Australia since 1990 ABN: 13772792037 mobile:0431-919-526 Tutor Finder : http://www.tutorfinder.com.au/tutor/rogergarin-michaud.php Google Talk : rogergarinmichaud at gmail.com http://my.care2.com/thubten ? The fate of animals is of greater importance to me than the fear of appearing ridiculous, it is indissobly connected with the fate of man? Emile Zola, XIXth century French author -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Richard Hayes Sent: mercredi 28 d?cembre 2011 08:02 To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries As 2011 draws to a close, buddha-l celebrates the twentieth anniversary of its founding in the autumn of 1991, and the tenth anniversary of the "buddhist" and "buddha-l" lists being collapsed into a single list that incorporates the vices of both and the virtues of neither. Hardly a days goes by that I don't think it's time for buddha-l to become impermanent, but it keeps sluggishly plodding along. For those of you who have forgotten the history of buddha-l (or its predecessor, buddhist at jpntohok), an idiosyncratic account of the early days is to be found on an old website that also should be dead by now but keeps limping along like a vampire in search of a stake to be driven through its heart: http://home.comcast.net/~dayamati/history.html All the merry crew of elves who sleep in the control room of buddha-l wish all you subscribers a pleasant and prosperous 2012. May you all get a life. Richard _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Tue Dec 27 19:37:30 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 19:37:30 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> Richard's history of these various lists allows as how at one time there were lots of subscribers: "In early communications about the new Buddhist Academic Discussion Forum, I predicted to Jim Cocks that subscriptions to the academic forum would probably level off at around thirty to forty subscribers. In fact, it soon reached a level of several hundred, and the number of subscribers consistently stayed around the 850 figure until 2005. It has never been an exclusively academic forum. In fact, the lack of substantial difference between buddha-l and buddhist, aside from the fact that one forum was moderated and the other was not, led me to combine the two lists into the one moderated forum in autumn 2001." Ok, so until 2005 there were 850. After that, nothing said about how many subscribers were left after 2005, nor about how many there are today. How many are there today? Judging by the blankness (shunya) of buddha-l today, one suspects the number might be around five: the five people who work on alternative digital codings. Most probably because that topic provoked the largest exchange of the past six months, and has nothing to do with anything except coding talents and preferences. Joanna Kirkpatrick www.artsricksha.com -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Richard Hayes Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 3:02 PM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries As 2011 draws to a close, buddha-l celebrates the twentieth anniversary of its founding in the autumn of 1991, and the tenth anniversary of the "buddhist" and "buddha-l" lists being collapsed into a single list that incorporates the vices of both and the virtues of neither. Hardly a days goes by that I don't think it's time for buddha-l to become impermanent, but it keeps sluggishly plodding along. For those of you who have forgotten the history of buddha-l (or its predecessor, buddhist at jpntohok), an idiosyncratic account of the early days is to be found on an old website that also should be dead by now but keeps limping along like a vampire in search of a stake to be driven through its heart: http://home.comcast.net/~dayamati/history.html All the merry crew of elves who sleep in the control room of buddha-l wish all you subscribers a pleasant and prosperous 2012. May you all get a life. Richard _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From donnab at hawaii.edu Tue Dec 27 20:13:44 2011 From: donnab at hawaii.edu (donna Bair-Mundy) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:13:44 -1000 (HST) Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries In-Reply-To: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> References: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> Message-ID: Aloha, Regarding: " How many are there today? Judging by the blankness (shunya) of buddha-l today, one suspects the number might be around five: the five people who work on alternative digital codings." I suspect there are, in fact, more than 5 of us. And not all of us spend our days working out unicode workarounds for Tibetan, or Sanskrit, or other alphabets. Some of us, like myself, have been around for years and get much enjoyment from Buddha-l during periods when activities pick up. I'm always learning something new. Have a safe and joyful day, donna Bair-Mundy, Ph.D. Instructor, LIS Program Information & Computer Sci. Dept. Hamilton Library, Room 003-B 2550 McCarthy Mall University of Hawai`i at Manoa Honolulu, HI 96822 Voice: 808-956-9518 Fax: 808-956-5835 On Tue, 27 Dec 2011, Jo wrote: > Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 19:37:30 -0700 > From: Jo > Reply-To: Buddhist discussion forum > To: 'Buddhist discussion forum' > Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries > > Richard's history of these various lists allows as how at one time there > were lots of subscribers: > > "In early communications about the new Buddhist Academic Discussion Forum, I > predicted to Jim Cocks that subscriptions to the academic forum would > probably level off at around thirty to forty subscribers. In fact, it soon > reached a level of several hundred, and the number of subscribers > consistently stayed around the 850 figure until 2005. It has never been an > exclusively academic forum. In fact, the lack of substantial difference > between buddha-l and buddhist, aside from the fact that one forum was > moderated and the other was not, led me to combine the two lists into the > one moderated forum in autumn 2001." > > Ok, so until 2005 there were 850. > After that, nothing said about how many subscribers were left after 2005, > nor about how many there are today. > How many are there today? > Judging by the blankness (shunya) of buddha-l today, one suspects the > number might be around five: the five people who work on alternative digital > codings. Most probably because that topic provoked the largest exchange of > the past six months, and has nothing to do with anything except coding > talents and preferences. > > Joanna Kirkpatrick > www.artsricksha.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com > [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Richard Hayes > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 3:02 PM > To: Buddhist discussion forum > Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries > > As 2011 draws to a close, buddha-l celebrates the twentieth anniversary of > its founding in the autumn of 1991, and the tenth anniversary of the > "buddhist" and "buddha-l" lists being collapsed into a single list that > incorporates the vices of both and the virtues of neither. Hardly a days > goes by that I don't think it's time for buddha-l to become impermanent, but > it keeps sluggishly plodding along. > > For those of you who have forgotten the history of buddha-l (or its > predecessor, buddhist at jpntohok), an idiosyncratic account of the early days > is to be found on an old website that also should be dead by now but keeps > limping along like a vampire in search of a stake to be driven through its > heart: > > http://home.comcast.net/~dayamati/history.html > > All the merry crew of elves who sleep in the control room of buddha-l wish > all you subscribers a pleasant and prosperous 2012. May you all get a life. > > Richard > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From rhayes at unm.edu Tue Dec 27 20:52:16 2011 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 20:52:16 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries In-Reply-To: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> References: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> Message-ID: <9BB2048D-A81F-45D0-B42B-B3ABCB8512DB@unm.edu> On Dec 27, 2011, at 7:37 PM, "Jo" wrote: > Ok, so until 2005 there were 850. > After that, nothing said about how many subscribers were left after 2005, > nor about how many there are today. > How many are there today? About 405. There were 850 email addresses on the subscription list for years, but several hundred of them were second or third addresses belonging to a single subscriber. A lot of people would add a new address and set the old one to nomail rather than delete it. When Buddha-l moved to SWCP, we unsubscribed everyone from the old site after inviting everyone to subscribe at the new site. Of more than 800 at the old site about half subscribed at the new address. The count has remained about the same ever since. Richard From rhayes at unm.edu Tue Dec 27 21:05:52 2011 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 21:05:52 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries In-Reply-To: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> References: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> Message-ID: <89F027E2-766F-41A9-BD5C-271E9DED8BD8@unm.edu> On Dec 27, 2011, at 7:37 PM, "Jo" wrote: > Judging by the blankness (shunya) of buddha-l today, one suspects the > number might be around five: the five people who work on alternative digital > codings. Most probably because that topic provoked the largest exchange of > the past six months, and has nothing to do with anything except coding > talents and preferences. I think if you'll look back through the archives, you'll see that several exchanges have been larger. Technical discussions are rather important for those of use who make extensive use of Asian languages, and we benefit by sharing information with each other. Anyone who wishes to start a discussion on any other topic connected with Buddhism or Buddhist studies is welcome to do so. Richard From drbob at comcast.net Wed Dec 28 05:02:37 2011 From: drbob at comcast.net (bob Woolery) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 04:02:37 -0800 Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries In-Reply-To: <89F027E2-766F-41A9-BD5C-271E9DED8BD8@unm.edu> References: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> <89F027E2-766F-41A9-BD5C-271E9DED8BD8@unm.edu> Message-ID: On another list, the assertion was made that nibbana literally means coolness. If so, the metaphorical effort to "be cool" is much older than I had known, and nibbana more understandable. That niroda, among its other meanings, denotes condom, brought new understanding to the firstwords of the YogaSutras. Or am I badly in the weeds? Bob Woolery, DC stateoftheartchiro.com miraclechiro.com 326 deAnza dr. Vallejo, CA 94589 707 557 5471 -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Richard Hayes Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 8:06 PM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries On Dec 27, 2011, at 7:37 PM, "Jo" wrote: > Judging by the blankness (shunya) of buddha-l today, one suspects the > number might be around five: the five people who work on alternative digital > codings. Most probably because that topic provoked the largest exchange of > the past six months, and has nothing to do with anything except coding > talents and preferences. I think if you'll look back through the archives, you'll see that several exchanges have been larger. Technical discussions are rather important for those of use who make extensive use of Asian languages, and we benefit by sharing information with each other. Anyone who wishes to start a discussion on any other topic connected with Buddhism or Buddhist studies is welcome to do so. Richard _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Wed Dec 28 10:47:25 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:47:25 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries In-Reply-To: <89F027E2-766F-41A9-BD5C-271E9DED8BD8@unm.edu> References: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> <89F027E2-766F-41A9-BD5C-271E9DED8BD8@unm.edu> Message-ID: <002801ccc588$c306d210$49147630$@spro.net> On Dec 27, 2011, at 7:37 PM, "Jo" wrote: > Judging by the blankness (shunya) of buddha-l today, one suspects the > number might be around five: the five people who work on alternative > digital codings. Most probably because that topic provoked the > largest exchange of the past six months, and has nothing to do with > anything except coding talents and preferences. I think if you'll look back through the archives, you'll see that several exchanges have been larger. Technical discussions are rather important for those of use who make extensive use of Asian languages, and we benefit by sharing information with each other. Anyone who wishes to start a discussion on any other topic connected with Buddhism or Buddhist studies is welcome to do so. Richard _______________________________________________ Technically speaking, you still haven't informed us as to the number of subscribers on Buddha-hell today. There's a probable reason that this number must remain secret--it's embarrassingly low? JK From jkirk at spro.net Wed Dec 28 10:49:31 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:49:31 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries In-Reply-To: <9BB2048D-A81F-45D0-B42B-B3ABCB8512DB@unm.edu> References: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> <9BB2048D-A81F-45D0-B42B-B3ABCB8512DB@unm.edu> Message-ID: <002901ccc589$0daaa3a0$28ffeae0$@spro.net> Hm--this just appeared in mail, or I just found it. JK -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Richard Hayes Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 8:52 PM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries On Dec 27, 2011, at 7:37 PM, "Jo" wrote: > Ok, so until 2005 there were 850. > After that, nothing said about how many subscribers were left after > 2005, nor about how many there are today. > How many are there today? About 405. There were 850 email addresses on the subscription list for years, but several hundred of them were second or third addresses belonging to a single subscriber. A lot of people would add a new address and set the old one to nomail rather than delete it. When Buddha-l moved to SWCP, we unsubscribed everyone from the old site after inviting everyone to subscribe at the new site. Of more than 800 at the old site about half subscribed at the new address. The count has remained about the same ever since. Richard _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Wed Dec 28 10:51:28 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:51:28 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries In-Reply-To: <9BB2048D-A81F-45D0-B42B-B3ABCB8512DB@unm.edu> References: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> <9BB2048D-A81F-45D0-B42B-B3ABCB8512DB@unm.edu> Message-ID: <002a01ccc589$53b60150$fb2203f0$@spro.net> On Dec 27, 2011, at 7:37 PM, "Jo" wrote: > Ok, so until 2005 there were 850. > After that, nothing said about how many subscribers were left after > 2005, nor about how many there are today. > How many are there today? About 405. There were 850 email addresses on the subscription list for years, but several hundred of them were second or third addresses belonging to a single subscriber. A lot of people would add a new address and set the old one to nomail rather than delete it. When Buddha-l moved to SWCP, we unsubscribed everyone from the old site after inviting everyone to subscribe at the new site. Of more than 800 at the old site about half subscribed at the new address. The count has remained about the same ever since. Richard _______________________________________________ This is an encouraging number........if only more of them would participate the list would make sense. As it has been this past year, except for one or two flurries, it doesn't make much sense. OH well, nothing like anicca to keep things moving. Joanna From twin_oceans at yahoo.com Wed Dec 28 21:40:10 2011 From: twin_oceans at yahoo.com (Katherine Masis) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 20:40:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats Message-ID: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> This is a genuine topic I have wanted to pursue.? Apologies if it has already been discussed, just refer me to the year and I'll look for the thread. ? Several years ago, I heard that "the only animal that was not invited to the Buddha's Parinirvana was the cat."? This statement was accompanied by all the usual stereotypes about cats: they're mean, treacherous, etc., which is why they were excluded from the guest list.? Where in the world did that statement come from?? And who wrote out the invitations? ? Katherine Masis P.S.? I live with 3 lovely, sweet cats: Selma, Estrella and Vicente.? From marshallarts at bigpond.com Thu Dec 29 14:52:39 2011 From: marshallarts at bigpond.com (Kate Marshall) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 07:52:39 +1000 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000a01ccc674$2f45c7b0$8dd15710$@com> Interesting enough the cat also misses out when the Jade King assigns twelve animals to the twelve Earthly Branches of Chinese astrology. In this instance, the cat did receive an invitation to attend the ceremony. He was tricked by the rat into not attending and the pig was chosen in the cat?s place. Regards Kate -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Masis Sent: Thursday, 29 December 2011 2:40 PM To: buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats This is a genuine topic I have wanted to pursue.? Apologies if it has already been discussed, just refer me to the year and I'll look for the thread. ? Several years ago, I heard that "the only animal that was not invited to the Buddha's Parinirvana was the cat."? This statement was accompanied by all the usual stereotypes about cats: they're mean, treacherous, etc., which is why they were excluded from the guest list.? Where in the world did that statement come from?? And who wrote out the invitations? ? Katherine Masis P.S.? I live with 3 lovely, sweet cats: Selma, Estrella and Vicente. _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From marshallarts at bigpond.com Thu Dec 29 15:12:16 2011 From: marshallarts at bigpond.com (Kate Marshall) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 08:12:16 +1000 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: <000a01ccc674$2f45c7b0$8dd15710$@com> References: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <000a01ccc674$2f45c7b0$8dd15710$@com> Message-ID: <000301ccc676$ee144c50$ca3ce4f0$@com> As a further note, to add insult to injury, the rat gains the Jade Emperor's attention by playing a flute while standing on the ox's back. He is awarded first place and the twelve year cycle starts with the Year of the Rat. The pig, the latecomer, is awarded last place in the cycle - which of course gives us the Year of the Pig. The cat misses out altogether and so there isn't a Year of the Cat. Regards Kate From charku at gmail.com Thu Dec 29 16:47:09 2011 From: charku at gmail.com (Charlie Hodgin) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 15:47:09 -0800 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: <000301ccc676$ee144c50$ca3ce4f0$@com> References: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <000a01ccc674$2f45c7b0$8dd15710$@com> <000301ccc676$ee144c50$ca3ce4f0$@com> Message-ID: I recall on the 10,000 Buddhas of Northern California website it used to have lay vows listed and requirements. 1 of the questions was do you live with a cat - the implication being that if you did you could not take a lay ordination. I did a quick search and could not find the vows etc listed...it was 4 years ago that I noted this documentation. http://www.cttbusa.org/ -charlie On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Kate Marshall wrote: > As a further note, to add insult to injury, the rat gains the Jade > Emperor's > attention by playing a flute while standing on the ox's back. He is awarded > first place and the twelve year cycle starts with the Year of the Rat. The > pig, the latecomer, is awarded last place in the cycle - which of course > gives us the Year of the Pig. The cat misses out altogether and so there > isn't a Year of the Cat. > > Regards > Kate > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From jkirk at spro.net Fri Dec 30 00:43:51 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 00:43:51 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: <000a01ccc674$2f45c7b0$8dd15710$@com> References: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <000a01ccc674$2f45c7b0$8dd15710$@com> Message-ID: <006801ccc6c6$c698f900$53caeb00$@spro.net> However, in Vietnam tradition the cat made it to the zodiac. They are very aware of their cat substituting for the Chinese pig. On Behalf Of Kate Marshall Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 2:53 PM Interesting enough the cat also misses out when the Jade King assigns twelve animals to the twelve Earthly Branches of Chinese astrology. In this instance, the cat did receive an invitation to attend the ceremony. He was tricked by the rat into not attending and the pig was chosen in the cat?s place. Regards Kate -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Katherine Masis Sent: Thursday, 29 December 2011 2:40 PM To: buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats This is a genuine topic I have wanted to pursue.? Apologies if it has already been discussed, just refer me to the year and I'll look for the thread. ? Several years ago, I heard that "the only animal that was not invited to the Buddha's Parinirvana was the cat."? This statement was accompanied by all the usual stereotypes about cats: they're mean, treacherous, etc., which is why they were excluded from the guest list.? Where in the world did that statement come from?? And who wrote out the invitations? ? Katherine Masis P.S.? I live with 3 lovely, sweet cats: Selma, Estrella and Vicente. _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Fri Dec 30 01:02:15 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 01:02:15 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Not changing the subject, but I just came across this (for the art-walas on this list) Message-ID: <007101ccc6c9$588c2f10$09a48d30$@spro.net> http://emscat.revues.org/index1803.html Skirting the Bodhisattva: Fabricating Visionary Art Abstract: This essay explores the image-text relationship between the ca. 12-century monumental Maitreya bodhisattva sculpture within a narrow tower in the village of Mangyu and passages from the Ga??avy?ha S?tra. Paintings on the dhot? of the sculpture resemble themes described within a k?t?g?ra-tower in the text related to Maitreya, and also depict one of the prominent j?taka associated with the Buddha, the Starving Tigress, or Vy?ghr? j?taka. The essay suggests the j?taka was deployed to demonstrate Maitreya?s recapitulation of the course of ??kyamuni?s path of self-sacrifice, and that the resemblance between text and image was intentional on the part of the 12th-century builders in Ladakh, on the far western reaches of cultural Tibet. The article is a free read. Here's a link for the entire journal, for further explorations: http://emscat.revues.org/index1803.html ?tudes mongoles et sib?riennes, centrasiatiques et tib?taines (in French & Eng.) Joanna From marshallarts at bigpond.com Fri Dec 30 04:25:11 2011 From: marshallarts at bigpond.com (Kate Marshall) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 21:25:11 +1000 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: <006801ccc6c6$c698f900$53caeb00$@spro.net> References: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <000a01ccc674$2f45c7b0$8dd15710$@com> <006801ccc6c6$c698f900$53caeb00$@spro.net> Message-ID: <000701ccc6e5$b31e0040$195a00c0$@com> Hi Jo, From sfeite at roadrunner.com Fri Dec 30 06:44:22 2011 From: sfeite at roadrunner.com (S. A. Feite) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 08:44:22 -0500 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <33658D0D-65F7-4376-A8E0-7524DBD8DABA@roadrunner.com> On Dec 28, 2011, at 11:40 PM, Katherine Masis wrote: > This is a genuine topic I have wanted to pursue. Apologies if it > has already been discussed, just refer me to the year and I'll look > for the thread. > > Several years ago, I heard that "the only animal that was not > invited to the Buddha's Parinirvana was the cat." This statement > was accompanied by all the usual stereotypes about cats: they're > mean, treacherous, etc., which is why they were excluded from the > guest list. Where in the world did that statement come from? And > who wrote out the invitations? In Tantric Buddhism there is the Jnana Dakini Simhamukha the lioness dakini: (...) she is a wrathful manifestation of Guhyajnana Dakini, who, according to the Nyingmapa tradition, was the principal Dakini teacher of Padmasambhava in the country of Uddiyana. Therefore, although Simhamukha is a Dakini in her aspect, she functions as a Yidam or meditation deity and her special functions are averting and repulsing (bzlog-pa) psychic attacks that may assault the practitioner and the subduing of negative female energy as personified by the Matrikas or Mamos. These latter are wild uncontrolled female spirits inhabiting the wilderness, both the mountains and the forests, beyond the confines of patriarchal civilization. These female spirits are generally hostile to the male gender. Simhamukha appears in a form wrathful, feminine, and demonic; indeed, her form is said to be actually that of a Matrikia or Mamo, not because her nature is evil or demonic, but because her wrathful aspect (khro gzugs) skillfully overcomes and subdues those violent negative energies. Simhamukha is a Jnana Dakini or wisdom goddess. According to Jigmed Lingpa (1726-1798), the famous Nyingmapa master and discoverer of hidden treasure texts or Termas, Simhamukha represents a Nirmanakaya manifestation, appearing in time and history, whereas her Sambhogakaya aspect is Vajravarahi and her Dharmakaya aspect is Samantabhadri, the Primordial Wisdom herself. Very often the Dakinis and the Matrikas were the old pre-Buddhist pagan goddesses of the earth and sky, although generally the Matrikas always tend to be more local in their nature. Dakinis may appear in many different female forms, young and old, some with animal heads. In Hindu tradition, the goddess Durga is called the Queen of the Dakinis and Matrikas or witches. In many ways, Simhamukha represents a Buddhist version of Durga, but instead of riding on a lion and brandishing her weapons with eighteen arms, Simhamukha has the head of a lion. Among the eight Tantra sections (sgrub-pa bka? brgyad) transmitted to Tibet in the 8th century by Padmasambhava, there is the section called Ma-mo rbad gtong, ?the cursing and spell casting associated with the witch goddesses,? wherein Simhamukha, as the chief divine figure, very much assumes the role of the Hindu goddess Durga in subduing demons and evil spirits and protecting practitioners from negative provocations of energy coming from the Mamos. Like other nature spirits, the Mamos are disturbed by mankind?s destruction of the natural environment and therefore inflict plagues, new diseases, earthquakes, madness, wars, and other calamities upon human civilization. The Magical Function of Averting Psychic Attacks As we have said, the principal magical function of Simhamukha is the averting or repulsing (bzlog-pa) of negative energy and sending it back to its source, whether that source is a black magician or an evil spirit (gdon). Such a provocation of negative energy is called a malediction (byad-ma, byad-kha), and this is illustrated in the story of Bari Lotsawa (see below). Most often the Goddess is invoked to avert psychic attack. As indicated previously with the Dakini Kurukulla, Tantric Buddhism sees this working with energy in concrete ways in terms of the four magics or magical activities. Although Simhamukha can work with any of the four, she principally relates to the fourth function or fierce magical actions (drag-po?i ?phrin-las). Therefore, the dark azure blue-colored Vajra Simhamukha is placed in the center of the mandala. Spiritually, she represents the transformation of anger or wrath into enlightened awareness, and psychically or magically, she accomplishes the subduing and vanquishing provocations of negative energy (gdon) personified as demons and evil spirits. She is surrounded by her retinue of four Dakinis who resemble herself, except for their body-color and certain attributes: in the east there is the white Buddha Simhamukha who has the magical function of pacifying circumstances and healing, in the south is the yellow Ratna Simhamukha who has the magical function of increasing wealth and prosperity, in the west is the red Padma Simhamukha who has the magical function of enchanting and bringing others under her power, and in the north is the dark green Karma Simhamukha who has the magical function of vanquishing and destroying negative forces. Each of these aspects of Simhamukha have their own mantras and rituals. If the practicioner is working which a specific function, say for example, becoming successful at business or winning at the horse races, he would put Ratna Simhamukha in the center of the mandala, doing the visualization while reciting her action mantra. But in thangkas, Vajra Simhamukha is usually represented as a single figure without the accompanying retinue. (...) from: http://vajranatha.com/teaching/Simhamukha.htm From rhayes at unm.edu Fri Dec 30 07:32:02 2011 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 07:32:02 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries In-Reply-To: References: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> <89F027E2-766F-41A9-BD5C-271E9DED8BD8@unm.edu> Message-ID: On Dec 28, 2011, at 05:02 , bob Woolery wrote: > That niroda, among its other meanings, denotes condom, brought new > understanding to the firstwords of the YogaSutras. Nirodha means something like an obstruction or the act of obstructing, as well as cessation. So the idea in yoga and Buddhism is to bring afflictions to a definitive end in such a way that they are obstructed and cannot arise again. If you would like your friends to think you're cool, you can tell them that you use yoga as a kind of prophylactic. Richard From rhayes at unm.edu Fri Dec 30 07:54:28 2011 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 07:54:28 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48BEAEC7-B78C-4802-80DA-907D9F9BC670@unm.edu> On Dec 28, 2011, at 21:40 , Katherine Masis wrote: > Several years ago, I heard that "the only animal that was not invited to the Buddha's Parinirvana was the cat." This statement was accompanied by all the usual stereotypes about cats: they're mean, treacherous, etc., which is why they were excluded from the guest list. Where in the world did that statement come from? Several years ago I overheard a tour guide in the Freer Gallery in Washington, D.C. explaining a large painting of the parinirv??a. She pointed out that all the trees were sagging, and all the animals were weeping, and the entire natural world was in a state of mourning. (John Ruskin would surely have disapproved!) But in one corner of the painting there was a cat licking its paws, completely unperturbed by the pathos of the occasion. The tour guide went on to say that cats have a reputation in Buddhist culture for being self-centered and aloof and independent. (Hmmm, isn't that what arhants are supposed to be?) This theme of cats being viewed negatively in Buddhism is explored in Elizabeth Coatesworth's children's story "The Cat Who Went to Heaven," which is a very nice cautionary tale of overcoming prejudice. It's set in Japan and deals with a Buddhist artist monk who befriends a cat that everyone else is always shooing out of the temple, because cats don't belong in temples. Most people I know who have read the book admit to having been in tears by the end. Also in the Freer Gallery there is a wonderful Indian sculpture of a very busy temple scene. One of the figures is a cat sitting in a lotus posture. He looks perfectly serene and pious, but one eye is open. If you follow the gaze, you notice he is looking at a little herd of mice who are worshipping off in the corner. Such fun. Richard From rhayes at unm.edu Fri Dec 30 07:59:14 2011 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 07:59:14 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: References: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <000a01ccc674$2f45c7b0$8dd15710$@com> <000301ccc676$ee144c50$ca3ce4f0$@com> Message-ID: <40975D4C-A234-4548-B3B4-367415A77D7F@unm.edu> On Dec 29, 2011, at 16:47 , Charlie Hodgin wrote: > I recall on the 10,000 Buddhas of Northern California website it used to > have lay vows listed and requirements. > > 1 of the questions was do you live with a cat - the implication being that > if you did you could not take a lay ordination. That's interesting. I've heard that when cats seek bodhisattva ordination, one of the questions is "Do you live with a human being?" Presumably, we are rather bad influences on cats aspiring to spiritual growth. From rhayes at unm.edu Fri Dec 30 08:31:45 2011 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 08:31:45 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Anniversaries In-Reply-To: <9BB2048D-A81F-45D0-B42B-B3ABCB8512DB@unm.edu> References: <002e01ccc509$a5cd3b50$f167b1f0$@spro.net> <9BB2048D-A81F-45D0-B42B-B3ABCB8512DB@unm.edu> Message-ID: A while back I reported that buddha-l currently has 405 subscribers. I just looked at the subscription list and learned that there are now 407. I don't know to what to attribute this sudden growth spurt. I just hope all this recent talk of cats doesn't provoke a rash of cancellations. Speaking of cats, I should have footnoted my reference to John Ruskin. I do so here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathetic_fallacy I'd say more but I have to feed the cats and take the dogs for a walk. While walking I'll ponder whether my lack of progress in Buddhist practice is due to all the cats who have been in my life during the past thirty years. From jkirk at spro.net Fri Dec 30 10:14:48 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 10:14:48 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: <000701ccc6e5$b31e0040$195a00c0$@com> References: <1325133610.72059.YahooMailNeo@web112613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <000a01ccc674$2f45c7b0$8dd15710$@com> <006801ccc6c6$c698f900$53caeb00$@spro.net> <000701ccc6e5$b31e0040$195a00c0$@com> Message-ID: <002101ccc716$893128d0$9b937a70$@spro.net> Oh right-- (duh) thanks for the correction! Jo --------------------------- ] On Behalf Of Kate Marshall Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 4:25 AM Hi Jo, From jkirk at spro.net Fri Dec 30 12:55:09 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 12:55:09 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Japan's Lucky Maneki Neko Message-ID: <001b01ccc72c$efca9020$cf5fb060$@spro.net> http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/maneki-neko.shtml Probably the prototype for Hello Kitty. Joanna From twin_oceans at yahoo.com Fri Dec 30 21:01:05 2011 From: twin_oceans at yahoo.com (Katherine Masis) Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 20:01:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic: Buddhism and Cats Message-ID: <1325304065.18492.YahooMailNeo@web112609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Don't worry, Richard.? Buddha-L members won't cancel out if they're cat owners! ? Watch this monk and his cats perform at the Myanmar Cat Jump Monastery: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRPqr8RWLLs&feature=related ? Watch this woman train cats to jump through hoops at the Jumping Cats Monastery, Burma: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bOjnfDk5ck ? Katherine Masis From chris.fynn at gmail.com Sat Dec 31 03:32:35 2011 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 16:32:35 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic: Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: <1325304065.18492.YahooMailNeo@web112609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <1325304065.18492.YahooMailNeo@web112609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: great Buddhist stunt cats! To start the new year perhaps we should conduct one of those internet surveys to see how many Buddha-L subscribers have a domestic cat. On 31 December 2011 10:01, Katherine Masis wrote: > Don't worry, Richard.? Buddha-L members won't cancel out if they're cat owners! > > Watch this monk and his cats perform at the Myanmar Cat Jump Monastery: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRPqr8RWLLs&feature=related > > Watch this woman train cats to jump through hoops at the Jumping Cats Monastery, Burma: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bOjnfDk5ck From ralf.steckel at online.ms Sat Dec 31 06:34:01 2011 From: ralf.steckel at online.ms (Ralf Steckel) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 14:34:01 +0100 (CET) Subject: [Buddha-l] topics, which cyclic emanate from the 'cosmic subconsciousness' of Buddha-l: was Re: New Buddhist Topic--Buddhism and Cats Message-ID: <396409554.355432.1325338441705.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb010> Dear Katherine et. al., cyclic events in a linear calendar seem to motivate the subscribers of Buddha-l to let 'pop up' certain topics during the time span of transition for the 'Northern Hemisphere' as well for the 'Southern Hemisphere'. An url - i would bet a small amount of tobacco - already seemed to be posted is http://www.earthcalendar.net which shows that contemporary human beings, affected to Buddhism (or perhaps in general) are more tolerant to the 'holy days' of different beliefs. That makes me feel less annoyed about all the political & social intolerance & rejection which are discussed on this forum as side-effect in topics dealing with inter-cultural conflicts or even wars, which due to the 'globalization' of 'news' affect a wider audience, than during the past of mankind on earth as known by the most 'historic' transmissions. *** For human beings who share the companion of 'domestic' cats, here some urls , which may not completely match the needs of subscribers of Buddha-l, because i for myself prefer the more 'wild' felines. Apart from that, those urls seem to have nothing in common with 'Buddhism'. Due to 'urbanization' especially in Germany, it is almost impossible to find a cat on the street, who is not nursed by some house keeper, a cat shelter organization or some volunteers. And if you run an apartment, you know cats get neurotic if they are not in companionship of other cats or you really spend a lot of time with them. At the country site, for a cat 'owner' in Germany there are different aspects to take into account, which i may report in year 2012, if anybody on this list may be interested... http://fifeweb.org/index.php http://www.wcf-online.de/ http://www.tica.org/ http://www.intercf.de/ As conclusion let all have a 'good transition' to 2012... Ralf PS: some name dropping of cats, playing a role during my current life on earth from past over present to future: 'Die Katze' - 'the cat' 'Nea' - 'the new one' 'Das Katerchen' - 'the "small" tomcat' 'Nea II' - 'the new one II' - later adopted by my mother and renamed to 'pussy' some cats on the city streets, always watched (or they observed me) 'Vladimir' et. al. 'Maya' 'Sheila' 'Tommy' The last three names still are among us sheltered by neighbours or friends >Katherine Masis P.S.? I live with 3 lovely, sweet cats: Selma, Estrella and Vicente.? ? From rhayes at unm.edu Sat Dec 31 07:59:43 2011 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 07:59:43 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic: Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: References: <1325304065.18492.YahooMailNeo@web112609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Dec 31, 2011, at 3:32 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: > To start the new year perhaps we should conduct one of those internet > surveys to see how many Buddha-L subscribers have a domestic cat. How many would admit it? From jkirk at spro.net Sat Dec 31 13:28:55 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 13:28:55 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] Not changing the subject, but I just came across this (for the art-walas on this list) In-Reply-To: <007101ccc6c9$588c2f10$09a48d30$@spro.net> References: <007101ccc6c9$588c2f10$09a48d30$@spro.net> Message-ID: <004401ccc7fa$d18186e0$748494a0$@spro.net> Ralf This topic also popped up-- on Friday (Freya's Day)...........one member of the list privately noted its potential usefulness to him in a course on Asian religious art. Nothing about cats going on here, but no doubt they are in the vanguard. Joanna -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Jo Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 1:02 AM To: Buddha-L Subject: [Buddha-l] Not changing the subject, but I just came across this (for the art-walas on this list) http://emscat.revues.org/index1803.html Skirting the Bodhisattva: Fabricating Visionary Art Abstract: This essay explores the image-text relationship between the ca. 12-century monumental Maitreya bodhisattva sculpture within a narrow tower in the village of Mangyu and passages from the Ga??avy?ha S?tra. Paintings on the dhot? of the sculpture resemble themes described within a k?t?g?ra-tower in the text related to Maitreya, and also depict one of the prominent j?taka associated with the Buddha, the Starving Tigress, or Vy?ghr? j?taka. The essay suggests the j?taka was deployed to demonstrate Maitreya?s recapitulation of the course of ??kyamuni?s path of self-sacrifice, and that the resemblance between text and image was intentional on the part of the 12th-century builders in Ladakh, on the far western reaches of cultural Tibet. The article is a free read. Here's a link for the entire journal, for further explorations: http://emscat.revues.org/index1803.html ?tudes mongoles et sib?riennes, centrasiatiques et tib?taines (in French & Eng.) Joanna _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From bshmr at aol.com Sat Dec 31 18:03:07 2011 From: bshmr at aol.com (Richard Basham) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:03:07 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic: Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1325379787.32676.20.camel@aims110> I am down to two surviving of the family that I care for. Little Sir, who isn't so little or quiet and Richard who has been a wonderful mirror occasionally. BTW, I heard of one referred to as 'Peever', note the spelling, but never one called 'Heys'. From jkirk at spro.net Sat Dec 31 19:52:07 2011 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:52:07 -0700 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic: Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: <1325379787.32676.20.camel@aims110> References: <1325379787.32676.20.camel@aims110> Message-ID: <005001ccc830$5a0a4670$0e1ed350$@spro.net> Oh, the one called Heys is alive and well and runs B-L. Unfortunately he is not a cat, but a Coy-dog. -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Richard Basham Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2011 6:03 PM To: buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic: Buddhism and Cats I am down to two surviving of the family that I care for. Little Sir, who isn't so little or quiet and Richard who has been a wonderful mirror occasionally. BTW, I heard of one referred to as 'Peever', note the spelling, but never one called 'Heys'. _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From robertertman at msn.com Sat Dec 31 21:33:10 2011 From: robertertman at msn.com (Robert Ertman) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 23:33:10 -0500 Subject: [Buddha-l] Buddhism and Cats and haiku In-Reply-To: <005001ccc830$5a0a4670$0e1ed350$@spro.net> References: , <1325379787.32676.20.camel@aims110>, <005001ccc830$5a0a4670$0e1ed350$@spro.net> Message-ID: the cat-- aware of the suffering of the mouse sharing the cat's joy-- aware of the suffering of the mouse the cat offers the buddha a mouse We once heard a visiting lama at Poolesville, MD, explain that cats have a hard time accumulating enough good karma for an advanced incarnation because they are such natural born killers. Our two cats came from the SPCA. Both hunt but only Miles is pleased to leave a mouse in my shoe. Cutie Pie had been owned by people who had no understanding of cats, else they would not have named her thus. She earned a cognomen which explains how she landed at the SPCA: Cutie Pie the Puppy Killer. There are of course happier moments: each cat eating the other's dinner enjoying it Happy New Year Bob E (Editor, UU Sangha) From karp at uw.edu.pl Sat Dec 31 23:40:36 2011 From: karp at uw.edu.pl (Artur Karp) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2012 07:40:36 +0100 Subject: [Buddha-l] New Buddhist Topic: Buddhism and Cats In-Reply-To: <005001ccc830$5a0a4670$0e1ed350$@spro.net> References: <1325379787.32676.20.camel@aims110> <005001ccc830$5a0a4670$0e1ed350$@spro.net> Message-ID: Cat, a perfect seducer. Mahabalipuram ascetic cat and his mice acolytes: http://www.flickr.com/photos/peteropaliu/5478257551/lightbox/ Artur K.