From chris.fynn at gmail.com Mon Jul 2 01:23:09 2012 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 13:23:09 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Christendom vs Buddhism in Cambodia In-Reply-To: <00b001cd4973$db55ea80$9201bf80$@spro.net> References: <4FD7358D.1010506@xs4all.nl> <006001cd48d2$93b3ab50$bb1b01f0$@spro.net> <00b001cd4973$db55ea80$9201bf80$@spro.net> Message-ID: On 13/06/2012, Jo wrote: >> This is one incident illustrating that Protestants actually accomplish >> some good--no drink no smoke-- for a change. > Chris: > Many of the Protestants converting people in these countries tend to be on > the extreme fringe. In Bhutan there was recently a case of some Protestants > killing a woman for "being possessed by satan" > JK > Horrible. But I DID say 'for a change", as I'm very dubious about Christian > missionaries. You know, after independence in 1947, India passed a law > against admitting missionaries that held up for a few years. The > mission-built hospitals were acceptable. Finally, because India has had > Christians there for centuries, the law was nullified. > But Bhutan has always been Buddhist, right? Why cannot the Bhutan kingdom > keep them out? Officially Bhutan is Buddhist & Hindu.and proselytism is forbidden. However there are Bhutanese educated at Catholic or Protestant missionary schools in Kalimpong and Darjeeling who have converted - and a few of these people, because of their education or family, are in high places. There was also a Canadian Jesuit, Father William Joseph Mackey S.J. , who was active in establishing schools in Bhutan. While he supposedly didn't convert anyone - some of his colleagues did. Indians can visit Bhutan more or less freely - and are not subject to the same restrictions other visitors are - so protestant "pastors" come here frequently in the guise of tourists or Indian business people. In the south the border is also fairly porous and some places are practically reachable only by travelling through Indian territory. There seems to be quite a lot of missionary activity there. It was in one these paces that the woman was killed for being possessed by satan by a group of Christians. - Chris From rhayes at unm.edu Mon Jul 2 07:46:39 2012 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 07:46:39 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Christendom vs Buddhism in Cambodia In-Reply-To: References: <4FD7358D.1010506@xs4all.nl> <006001cd48d2$93b3ab50$bb1b01f0$@spro.net> <00b001cd4973$db55ea80$9201bf80$@spro.net> Message-ID: <18B58062-7DEB-4DAB-815D-C0C1FD36595D@unm.edu> On Jul 2, 2012, at 1:23 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: > There was also a Canadian Jesuit, Father William > Joseph Mackey S.J. > , who was > active in establishing schools in Bhutan. While he supposedly didn't > convert anyone - some of his colleagues did. I thought the Jesuits were best known for converting to the religions of the people with whom they interacted. Isn't that why they're so often running afoul of the Vatican? Just out of curiosity, Chris, is there a noticeable Mormon presence in Bhutan? Just about every place I have traveled I have bumped into a few tall, blonde, athletic men barely old enough to shave, yet wearing badges on their chests identifying them as Elder Whoever. They excel in offering free English lessons and warning the natives of the evils of tea, coffee and Coca-Cola. Mormon missionaries have even reached such remote parts of the world as New Mexico, so I would expect them to be swarming all over Bhutan. Elder R. Hayes Church of Gautama Buddha of Latter Day Bodhisattvas From curt at cola.iges.org Mon Jul 2 11:57:54 2012 From: curt at cola.iges.org (curt steinmetz) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:57:54 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Christendom vs Buddhism in Cambodia In-Reply-To: References: <4FD7358D.1010506@xs4all.nl> <006001cd48d2$93b3ab50$bb1b01f0$@spro.net> Message-ID: <4FF1E122.8030602@cola.iges.org> On 6/13/2012 4:55 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: > Many of the Protestants converting people in these countries tend to be on the > extreme fringe. In Bhutan there was recently a case of some Protestants killing > a woman for "being possessed by satan" > Even in the US and Europe, fundamentalist Protestantism can no longer be considered a "fringe" phenomenon (to the extent that it ever was that). Curt From jkirk at spro.net Mon Jul 2 15:24:14 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:24:14 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Christendom vs Buddhism in Cambodia In-Reply-To: <4FF1E122.8030602@cola.iges.org> References: <4FD7358D.1010506@xs4all.nl> <006001cd48d2$93b3ab50$bb1b01f0$@spro.net> <4FF1E122.8030602@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <004e01cd5899$07dda820$1798f860$@spro.net> On 6/13/2012 4:55 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: > Many of the Protestants converting people in these countries tend to > be on the extreme fringe. In Bhutan there was recently a case of some > Protestants killing a woman for "being possessed by satan" > Even in the US and Europe, fundamentalist Protestantism can no longer be considered a "fringe" phenomenon (to the extent that it ever was that). Curt -------------------------- Distinctions need to be made between some fundamentalists and others of that ilk. It's my surmise that only the radically-fringe types would kill for God. There seems to be a continuum of practice, from the worst excesses of ritual murder to the serpent handler prayer meetings where sometimes somebody gets bitten and dies; but that's God for you. Otherwise the very worst so far as civil society goes are the Dominionists--some of whom are in Congress. Joanna From jkirk at spro.net Thu Jul 5 23:33:47 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 23:33:47 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] July 6th birthday of HH the Dalai Lama Message-ID: <006701cd5b38$eb2466e0$c16d34a0$@spro.net> From chris.fynn at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 16:38:39 2012 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 04:38:39 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Christendom vs Buddhism in Cambodia In-Reply-To: <18B58062-7DEB-4DAB-815D-C0C1FD36595D@unm.edu> References: <4FD7358D.1010506@xs4all.nl> <006001cd48d2$93b3ab50$bb1b01f0$@spro.net> <00b001cd4973$db55ea80$9201bf80$@spro.net> <18B58062-7DEB-4DAB-815D-C0C1FD36595D@unm.edu> Message-ID: On 02/07/2012, Richard Hayes wrote: > On Jul 2, 2012, at 1:23 AM, Christopher Fynn wrote: > >> There was also a Canadian Jesuit, Father William >> Joseph Mackey S.J. >> , who was >> active in establishing schools in Bhutan. While he supposedly didn't >> convert anyone - some of his colleagues did. > > I thought the Jesuits were best known for converting to the religions of the > people with whom they interacted. Isn't that why they're so often running > afoul of the Vatican? Though not a Jesuit David Snellgrove, who taught Tibetan Studies at SOAS and worked with Giuseppe Tucci was an advisor to the Vatican on Tibetan Buddhism. Tadeusz Skorupski one of his students who still teaches Buddhist Studies at SOAS is a Polish ex-priest with a degree from the Vatican. Interestingly the first European visitors to Bhutan were a couple of Portuguese Jesuit missionaries, Father Est?v?o Cacella and Father Jo?o Cabral who came in the early 17C on their way to Tibet. They stayed in Bhutan for some time and made good freinds with Shabdrung Ngawang Namgyal, the the exiled Tibetan lama who was the founder of the Drukpa state. As you may know chilli peppers are the main vegetable eaten in Bhutan (they are grown and eaten here in vast quantities as a vegetable not a spice) and my own theory is that this plant must have been introduced here by these two Jesuits. > Just out of curiosity, Chris, is there a noticeable Mormon presence in > Bhutan? Just about every place I have traveled I have bumped into a few > tall, blonde, athletic men barely old enough to shave, yet wearing badges on > their chests identifying them as Elder Whoever. They excel in offering free > English lessons and warning the natives of the evils of tea, coffee and > Coca-Cola. Mormon missionaries have even reached such remote parts of the > world as New Mexico, so I would expect them to be swarming all over Bhutan. There are a lot of short dark Keralan school teachers here - some of whom are probably Syrian Orthodox Christians but very few few young tall, blonde, athletic men. I've spotted a couple of them working for a UN agency and the Netherlands development agency (SNV) - I doubt if they are Mormons, but you never know. The only person with Mormon connections I ever met in these parts was the late Gene Smith who was the field director of the Library of Congress Field Office in Delhi in the early 80's and at the time set up a program which is responsible for preserving the bulk of Tibetan & Bhutanese literature that is available today. He visited Bhutan a number of times. I believe he was actually a descendent of Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon seems to be a kind of Christian terma, so I guess it somehow all fits in. [BTW I'm surprised to hear that Mormons are against something as American as Coca-Cola - I guess Romney won't get too many votes in Atlanta, Georgia then.] From chris.fynn at gmail.com Sat Jul 7 17:00:09 2012 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 05:00:09 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Christendom vs Buddhism in Cambodia In-Reply-To: <4FF1E122.8030602@cola.iges.org> References: <4FD7358D.1010506@xs4all.nl> <006001cd48d2$93b3ab50$bb1b01f0$@spro.net> <4FF1E122.8030602@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: On 02/07/2012, curt steinmetz wrote: > Even in the US and Europe, fundamentalist Protestantism can no longer be > considered a "fringe" phenomenon (to the extent that it ever was that). > > Curt I had an Indian housekeeper here who used to attend meetings of various Christian groups here. They used to give her young daughter all kinds of gifts and money for attending Sunday school.. One day I came home early to discover all my Buddhist images covered up and a whole group of her freinds both men and women with white cotton scarves tied round their heads kneeling on the floor of my sitting room conducting some strange Christioan ritual . I'm not sure but I think this particular group may have been some kind of offshoot of the seventh day adventists - but they seemed pretty fringe to my own experiences of Christianity. From rhayes at unm.edu Sat Jul 7 17:54:22 2012 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 17:54:22 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Christendom vs Buddhism in Cambodia In-Reply-To: References: <4FD7358D.1010506@xs4all.nl> <006001cd48d2$93b3ab50$bb1b01f0$@spro.net> <4FF1E122.8030602@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: On Jul 7, 2012, at 5:00 PM, Christopher Fynn wrote: > One day I > came home early to discover all my Buddhist images covered up Sounds as though your house might have been invaded by Quakers. Images of any sort tend to make them quake. Hence the name. On the other hand, perhaps the visitors were house painters making sure that nothing got splattered on your Buddhist images. The fact that they tied white scarves around their heads makes that explanation seem likely. I was once invited to give a talk at a Buddhist center in Ottawa. I noticed all the images had been covered up. It was explained to me that at talks to which the general public were invited, the Buddhists in question covered up the images so as not to offend anyone. It occurred to me that it takes a very special kind of person to attend a talk at a known religious institution and then to get offended by the symbols of the religion at that institution. My own tendency is to assume that when people cover up religious icons, they are hiding the fact that they're cannibals. But that may just be my own imagination running amok. Richard Hayes From jkirk at spro.net Wed Jul 18 08:18:41 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:18:41 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park ousdie Lhasa-------- Message-ID: <000001cd64f0$3bda66f0$b38f34d0$@spro.net> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/06/china-plans-theme-park-tibet Chinese authorities say proposed theme park would reduce tourist pressure on the city's main sights. Photograph: Dan Chung for the Guardian Chinese officials have announced plans to build a ?3bn Tibetan culture theme park outside Lhasa in three to five years. Authorities see developing tourism as crucial to the economic future of Tibet and have set a goal of attracting 15 million tourists a year by 2015, generating up to 18bn yuan (?1.8bn), in a region with a population of just 3 million. But Tibetan groups have expressed concern that the surge in tourism has also eroded traditional culture and that the income has economically benefited Han Chinese more than Tibetans. Ma Xinming, deputy mayor of the city, told journalists that the park would cover 800 hectares (1980 acres) on a site just over a mile from the centre. He said it would improve the Tibetan capital's attractiveness to tourists and be a landmark for its cultural industry, state news agency Xinhua reported. The mayor said it would include attractions themed around Princess Wencheng ? the seventh-century niece of a Tang-dynasty emperor who married a king from Tibet's Yarlung dynasty ? whose tale has been embraced by Chinese authorities as a parable of ethnic harmony. The park will include outdoor shows about the princess, along with other educational and entertainment facilities. Business and residential districts would also be included. Ma said the park would also reduce tourist pressure on the Jokhang Temple and the Barkhor in the heart of old Lhasa, helping to protect the city's heritage. According to state media, the number of visitors to the region rose by 25.7% year-on-year in the first five months of 2012. The tourism bureau has said Tibet expects 10 million tourists this year ? up one million from last year ? with tourism revenues growing to 12bn yuan. But foreigners were last month indefinitely banned from visiting, amid growing tension. The announcement came after two Tibetan men set fire to themselves in Lhasa. Tibetan areas across western China have seen a spate of self-immolations, with those involved protesting against Chinese policies. Officials in China often see theme parks as a way to develop tourism, though many have failed to attract the investment and visitors they anticipated. Whether the Lhasa government ends up building the project on the massive scale envisaged remains to be seen. Professor Robert Barnett, an expert on Tibetan culture at Columbia University, said that while some officials had talked about environmentally and culturally appropriate tourism in Tibet, "this represents a nail in the coffin ? symbolically and perhaps practically ? of attempts by Tibetans and Chinese to promote that." He added: "To recoup that cost, you have to have tourism on an unimaginable scale." Barnett said Tibetans might well go to the theme park themselves, but would also be likely to question whether it was good for their culture and worth the huge investment. "They are very acutely aware of these issues ... but I am not sure they have any form to ask them publicly," he said. Xinhua reported last month that officials have also earmarked more than 400m yuan to develop tourism in Nyingchi prefecture in southeastern Tibet, renowned for its scenic beauty. In addition to creating an international "Swiss-style" tourism town, the schemes will involve building 22 "model villages", where tourists will be able to enjoy homestays. Critics have warned the plan could damage the fragile environment. From mb.schiekel at arcor.de Wed Jul 18 12:26:24 2012 From: mb.schiekel at arcor.de (M.B. Schiekel) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 20:26:24 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] reflections on Zen and Ethics Message-ID: <5006FFD0.90202@arcor.de> Hallo all, Christopher Hamacher is a Canadian living in Munich/Germany: http://www.ensokai.de/christopher.htm He has written some reflections on Zen and/or Ethics: http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php?id=70,10983,0,0,1,0 http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/content/20120707_Hamacher_ICSA.pdf Nothing absolutely new, but a worthwhile reading for Zen-practitioners anyway. In metta, bernhard -- http://www.mb-schiekel.de/ GPG-Key available: GnuPG-2.0.12 From vasubandhu at earthlink.net Wed Jul 18 12:26:44 2012 From: vasubandhu at earthlink.net (Dan Lusthaus) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:26:44 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park ousdie Lhasa-------- References: <000001cd64f0$3bda66f0$b38f34d0$@spro.net> Message-ID: <8FC1D86738A645E3B4E8C1B954D3A1C1@Dan> No one ever said that the Chinese were not shrewd. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jo" To: "Buddha-L" Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:18 AM Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park ousdie Lhasa-------- http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/06/china-plans-theme-park-tibet Chinese authorities say proposed theme park would reduce tourist pressure on the city's main sights. Photograph: Dan Chung for the Guardian Chinese officials have announced plans to build a ?3bn Tibetan culture theme park outside Lhasa in three to five years. Authorities see developing tourism as crucial to the economic future of Tibet and have set a goal of attracting 15 million tourists a year by 2015, generating up to 18bn yuan (?1.8bn), in a region with a population of just 3 million. But Tibetan groups have expressed concern that the surge in tourism has also eroded traditional culture and that the income has economically benefited Han Chinese more than Tibetans. Ma Xinming, deputy mayor of the city, told journalists that the park would cover 800 hectares (1980 acres) on a site just over a mile from the centre. He said it would improve the Tibetan capital's attractiveness to tourists and be a landmark for its cultural industry, state news agency Xinhua reported. The mayor said it would include attractions themed around Princess Wencheng - the seventh-century niece of a Tang-dynasty emperor who married a king from Tibet's Yarlung dynasty - whose tale has been embraced by Chinese authorities as a parable of ethnic harmony. The park will include outdoor shows about the princess, along with other educational and entertainment facilities. Business and residential districts would also be included. Ma said the park would also reduce tourist pressure on the Jokhang Temple and the Barkhor in the heart of old Lhasa, helping to protect the city's heritage. According to state media, the number of visitors to the region rose by 25.7% year-on-year in the first five months of 2012. The tourism bureau has said Tibet expects 10 million tourists this year - up one million from last year - with tourism revenues growing to 12bn yuan. But foreigners were last month indefinitely banned from visiting, amid growing tension. The announcement came after two Tibetan men set fire to themselves in Lhasa. Tibetan areas across western China have seen a spate of self-immolations, with those involved protesting against Chinese policies. Officials in China often see theme parks as a way to develop tourism, though many have failed to attract the investment and visitors they anticipated. Whether the Lhasa government ends up building the project on the massive scale envisaged remains to be seen. Professor Robert Barnett, an expert on Tibetan culture at Columbia University, said that while some officials had talked about environmentally and culturally appropriate tourism in Tibet, "this represents a nail in the coffin - symbolically and perhaps practically - of attempts by Tibetans and Chinese to promote that." He added: "To recoup that cost, you have to have tourism on an unimaginable scale." Barnett said Tibetans might well go to the theme park themselves, but would also be likely to question whether it was good for their culture and worth the huge investment. "They are very acutely aware of these issues ... but I am not sure they have any form to ask them publicly," he said. Xinhua reported last month that officials have also earmarked more than 400m yuan to develop tourism in Nyingchi prefecture in southeastern Tibet, renowned for its scenic beauty. In addition to creating an international "Swiss-style" tourism town, the schemes will involve building 22 "model villages", where tourists will be able to enjoy homestays. Critics have warned the plan could damage the fragile environment. _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Wed Jul 18 12:39:48 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 12:39:48 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park ousdie Lhasa-------- In-Reply-To: <8FC1D86738A645E3B4E8C1B954D3A1C1@Dan> References: <000001cd64f0$3bda66f0$b38f34d0$@spro.net> <8FC1D86738A645E3B4E8C1B954D3A1C1@Dan> Message-ID: <003301cd6514$b62c4bc0$2284e340$@spro.net> Or crude. -------------------- Dan Lusthaus Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:27 PM No one ever said that the Chinese were not shrewd. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jo" http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/06/china-plans-theme-park-tibet Chinese authorities say proposed theme park would reduce tourist pressure on the city's main sights. Photograph: Dan Chung for the Guardian Chinese officials have announced plans to build a ?3bn Tibetan culture theme park outside Lhasa in three to five years. Authorities see developing tourism as crucial to the economic future of Tibet and have set a goal of attracting 15 million tourists a year by 2015, generating up to 18bn yuan (?1.8bn), in a region with a population of just 3 million. But Tibetan groups have expressed concern that the surge in tourism has also eroded traditional culture and that the income has economically benefited Han Chinese more than Tibetans. Ma Xinming, deputy mayor of the city, told journalists that the park would cover 800 hectares (1980 acres) on a site just over a mile from the centre. He said it would improve the Tibetan capital's attractiveness to tourists and be a landmark for its cultural industry, state news agency Xinhua reported. The mayor said it would include attractions themed around Princess Wencheng - the seventh-century niece of a Tang-dynasty emperor who married a king from Tibet's Yarlung dynasty - whose tale has been embraced by Chinese authorities as a parable of ethnic harmony. The park will include outdoor shows about the princess, along with other educational and entertainment facilities. Business and residential districts would also be included. Ma said the park would also reduce tourist pressure on the Jokhang Temple and the Barkhor in the heart of old Lhasa, helping to protect the city's heritage. According to state media, the number of visitors to the region rose by 25.7% year-on-year in the first five months of 2012. The tourism bureau has said Tibet expects 10 million tourists this year - up one million from last year - with tourism revenues growing to 12bn yuan. But foreigners were last month indefinitely banned from visiting, amid growing tension. The announcement came after two Tibetan men set fire to themselves in Lhasa. Tibetan areas across western China have seen a spate of self-immolations, with those involved protesting against Chinese policies. Officials in China often see theme parks as a way to develop tourism, though many have failed to attract the investment and visitors they anticipated. Whether the Lhasa government ends up building the project on the massive scale envisaged remains to be seen. Professor Robert Barnett, an expert on Tibetan culture at Columbia University, said that while some officials had talked about environmentally and culturally appropriate tourism in Tibet, "this represents a nail in the coffin - symbolically and perhaps practically - of attempts by Tibetans and Chinese to promote that." He added: "To recoup that cost, you have to have tourism on an unimaginable scale." Barnett said Tibetans might well go to the theme park themselves, but would also be likely to question whether it was good for their culture and worth the huge investment. "They are very acutely aware of these issues ... but I am not sure they have any form to ask them publicly," he said. Xinhua reported last month that officials have also earmarked more than 400m yuan to develop tourism in Nyingchi prefecture in southeastern Tibet, renowned for its scenic beauty. In addition to creating an international "Swiss-style" tourism town, the schemes will involve building 22 "model villages", where tourists will be able to enjoy homestays. Critics have warned the plan could damage the fragile environment. _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jehms at xs4all.nl Wed Jul 18 15:44:01 2012 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:44:01 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park ousdie Lhasa-------- In-Reply-To: <003301cd6514$b62c4bc0$2284e340$@spro.net> References: <000001cd64f0$3bda66f0$b38f34d0$@spro.net> <8FC1D86738A645E3B4E8C1B954D3A1C1@Dan> <003301cd6514$b62c4bc0$2284e340$@spro.net> Message-ID: <50072E21.4050106@xs4all.nl> Perhaps also stupid. I mean there are lots of Chinese middle class people who now have the money to go somewhere and they do not mind to stand in line for hours and visit the most crappy theme parks. But I wonder if you can go on for ever, if there will not come a time that even the most insensitive Chinese grow tired of theme parks or that they discover that it is more convenient to build one near Beijing. They build replica of European towns but who would build a replica near the original? Perhaps they are planning to destroy all of Lhasa? erik Op 18-07-12 20:39, Jo schreef: > Or crude. > > -------------------- > > Dan Lusthaus > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:27 PM > > No one ever said that the Chinese were not shrewd. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jo" > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/06/china-plans-theme-park-tibet > > Chinese authorities say proposed theme park would reduce tourist pressure on > the city's main sights. Photograph: Dan Chung for the Guardian > > Chinese officials have announced plans to build a ?3bn Tibetan culture theme > park outside Lhasa in three to five years. > Authorities see developing tourism as crucial to the economic future of > Tibet and have set a goal of attracting 15 million tourists a year by 2015, > generating up to 18bn yuan (?1.8bn), in a region with a population of just 3 > million. > But Tibetan groups have expressed concern that the surge in tourism has also > eroded traditional culture and that the income has economically benefited > Han Chinese more than Tibetans. > Ma Xinming, deputy mayor of the city, told journalists that the park would > cover 800 hectares (1980 acres) on a site just over a mile from the centre. > He said it would improve the Tibetan capital's attractiveness to tourists > and be a landmark for its cultural industry, state news agency Xinhua > reported. > The mayor said it would include attractions themed around Princess Wencheng > - the seventh-century niece of a Tang-dynasty emperor who married a king > from Tibet's Yarlung dynasty - whose tale has been embraced by Chinese > authorities as a parable of ethnic harmony. > The park will include outdoor shows about the princess, along with other > educational and entertainment facilities. Business and residential districts > would also be included. > Ma said the park would also reduce tourist pressure on the Jokhang Temple > and the Barkhor in the heart of old Lhasa, helping to protect the city's > heritage. > According to state media, the number of visitors to the region rose by 25.7% > year-on-year in the first five months of 2012. The tourism bureau has said > Tibet expects 10 million tourists this year - up one million from last year > - with tourism revenues growing to 12bn yuan. But foreigners were last month > indefinitely banned from visiting, amid growing tension. > The announcement came after two Tibetan men set fire to themselves in Lhasa. > Tibetan areas across western China have seen a spate of self-immolations, > with those involved protesting against Chinese policies. > Officials in China often see theme parks as a way to develop tourism, though > many have failed to attract the investment and visitors they anticipated. > Whether the Lhasa government ends up building the project on the massive > scale envisaged remains to be seen. > Professor Robert Barnett, an expert on Tibetan culture at Columbia > University, said that while some officials had talked about environmentally > and culturally appropriate tourism in Tibet, "this represents a nail in the > coffin - symbolically and perhaps practically - of attempts by Tibetans and > Chinese to promote that." > He added: "To recoup that cost, you have to have tourism on an unimaginable > scale." > Barnett said Tibetans might well go to the theme park themselves, but would > also be likely to question whether it was good for their culture and worth > the huge investment. > "They are very acutely aware of these issues ... but I am not sure they have > any form to ask them publicly," he said. > Xinhua reported last month that officials have also earmarked more than 400m > yuan to develop tourism in Nyingchi prefecture in southeastern Tibet, > renowned for its scenic beauty. > In addition to creating an international "Swiss-style" tourism town, the > schemes will involve building 22 "model villages", where tourists will be > able to enjoy homestays. Critics have warned the plan could damage the > fragile environment. > > > > From jkirk at spro.net Wed Jul 18 20:12:26 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 20:12:26 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park ousdie Lhasa-------- In-Reply-To: <50072E21.4050106@xs4all.nl> References: <000001cd64f0$3bda66f0$b38f34d0$@spro.net> <8FC1D86738A645E3B4E8C1B954D3A1C1@Dan> <003301cd6514$b62c4bc0$2284e340$@spro.net> <50072E21.4050106@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <003501cd6553$f1c394b0$d54abe10$@spro.net> Eric: "... but who would build a replica near the original? Perhaps they are planning to destroy all of Lhasa?" You are probably right on the mark, Eric. I suspect this is their aim--to convert things Tibetan to Chinese versions of same. (Can we compare what happened in US history? Hyphenated cultures? Such as African-American, Polish-American, etc etc. Was it all that benign?) They doubtless are aiming to forge a Tibeto-Chinese culture. (Attention to the ancient sharings of cultural features between Tibet and China, and vice versa, would not be allowed-- unless such could be warped into Chinese nationalistic values, as I recently read they did with a Tibetan folklore tale converted to a Chinese movie.) I read an article in the latest issue of _Education about Asia_ (a journal), about Mongolian arts. Halfway through, I noticed it barely said anything about Mongolia's long Buddhist historical heritage. By 3/4ths of the way to the end, I realized that this article had been written slanted by a Chinese author toward the supremacy of Chinese views on Mongolia. Nothing but a bunch of clich?s. Joanna ----------------------------------------- Erik Hoogcarspel Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 3:44 PM Perhaps also stupid. I mean there are lots of Chinese middle class people who now have the money to go somewhere and they do not mind to stand in line for hours and visit the most crappy theme parks. But I wonder if you can go on for ever, if there will not come a time that even the most insensitive Chinese grow tired of theme parks or that they discover that it is more convenient to build one near Beijing. They build replica of European towns but who would build a replica near the original? Perhaps they are planning to destroy all of Lhasa? erik Op 18-07-12 20:39, Jo schreef: > Or crude. > > -------------------- > > Dan Lusthaus > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:27 PM > > No one ever said that the Chinese were not shrewd. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jo" > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/06/china-plans-theme-park-tib > et > > Chinese authorities say proposed theme park would reduce tourist > pressure on the city's main sights. Photograph: Dan Chung for the > Guardian > > Chinese officials have announced plans to build a ?3bn Tibetan culture > theme park outside Lhasa in three to five years. > Authorities see developing tourism as crucial to the economic future > of Tibet and have set a goal of attracting 15 million tourists a year > by 2015, generating up to 18bn yuan (?1.8bn), in a region with a > population of just 3 million. > But Tibetan groups have expressed concern that the surge in tourism > has also eroded traditional culture and that the income has > economically benefited Han Chinese more than Tibetans. > Ma Xinming, deputy mayor of the city, told journalists that the park > would cover 800 hectares (1980 acres) on a site just over a mile from the centre. > He said it would improve the Tibetan capital's attractiveness to > tourists and be a landmark for its cultural industry, state news > agency Xinhua reported. > The mayor said it would include attractions themed around Princess > Wencheng > - the seventh-century niece of a Tang-dynasty emperor who married a > king from Tibet's Yarlung dynasty - whose tale has been embraced by > Chinese authorities as a parable of ethnic harmony. > The park will include outdoor shows about the princess, along with > other educational and entertainment facilities. Business and > residential districts would also be included. > Ma said the park would also reduce tourist pressure on the Jokhang > Temple and the Barkhor in the heart of old Lhasa, helping to protect > the city's heritage. > According to state media, the number of visitors to the region rose by > 25.7% year-on-year in the first five months of 2012. The tourism > bureau has said Tibet expects 10 million tourists this year - up one > million from last year > - with tourism revenues growing to 12bn yuan. But foreigners were last > month indefinitely banned from visiting, amid growing tension. > The announcement came after two Tibetan men set fire to themselves in Lhasa. > Tibetan areas across western China have seen a spate of > self-immolations, with those involved protesting against Chinese policies. > Officials in China often see theme parks as a way to develop tourism, > though many have failed to attract the investment and visitors they anticipated. > Whether the Lhasa government ends up building the project on the > massive scale envisaged remains to be seen. > Professor Robert Barnett, an expert on Tibetan culture at Columbia > University, said that while some officials had talked about > environmentally and culturally appropriate tourism in Tibet, "this > represents a nail in the coffin - symbolically and perhaps practically > - of attempts by Tibetans and Chinese to promote that." > He added: "To recoup that cost, you have to have tourism on an > unimaginable scale." > Barnett said Tibetans might well go to the theme park themselves, but > would also be likely to question whether it was good for their culture > and worth the huge investment. > "They are very acutely aware of these issues ... but I am not sure > they have any form to ask them publicly," he said. > Xinhua reported last month that officials have also earmarked more > than 400m yuan to develop tourism in Nyingchi prefecture in > southeastern Tibet, renowned for its scenic beauty. > In addition to creating an international "Swiss-style" tourism town, > the schemes will involve building 22 "model villages", where tourists > will be able to enjoy homestays. Critics have warned the plan could > damage the fragile environment. > > > > _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From m.gouin at tsd.ac.uk Thu Jul 19 02:54:53 2012 From: m.gouin at tsd.ac.uk (Margaret Gouin) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 09:54:53 +0100 Subject: [Buddha-l] Victor and Victoria Trimondi Message-ID: <973DEFA69068C54A91F871887CB8B3A7A25721BF02@lp10.campus.local> A friend recently sent me an extract from a book called 'The Shadow of the Dalai Lama' by Victor and Victoria Trimondi. All I've been able to find out on-line is that this couple is of German origin; the websites I've found are either run by them or their supporters. They appear to make a speciality of 'debunking' Tibetan Buddhism. At least some of their books are available online in English but only a couple, in German, on Amazon. Can anyone tell me more about these two? Specifically, what is the basis for their expertise (if any) in the field? I'm curious because of the almost total lack information about them, especially from Buddhist sources (book reviews, etc.). Thanks. Margaret ---------------------------------------- Margaret Gouin, PhD (Bristol) Honorary Research Fellow School of Theology, Religious Studies and Islamic Studies University of Wales Trinity Saint David From alex at chagchen.org Thu Jul 19 03:38:58 2012 From: alex at chagchen.org (Alex Wilding) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 11:38:58 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] Victor and Victoria Trimondi In-Reply-To: <973DEFA69068C54A91F871887CB8B3A7A25721BF02@lp10.campus.local> References: <973DEFA69068C54A91F871887CB8B3A7A25721BF02@lp10.campus.local> Message-ID: <002001cd6592$54c687a0$fe5396e0$@org> They are professional agitators, and have been for many years since Victor (I've forgotten his proper name) was a Western publisher of, for instance, Mao's Red Book. People change, up to a point, of course, and as I understand it they actually did have a not totally insignificant involvement with Tibetan Buddhism. They do, however, seem to have completely got the wrong end of the stick, and their book is a bit of a meisterwerk when it comes to misunderstanding, misinterpretation, failure to contextualise and so on. I suspect the reason why you don't find a huge amount of counter-material on the web is that on the one hand they are not as important as they think and don't have as much following as they like to make out. On the other hand their material is so intellectually dishonest that not many seriously informed commentators want to lower themselves to their level. That is, of course, only conjecture, but I have noticed the very same thing and this is the only explanation I have been able to come up with. The problem is that they are not by any means inarticulate. I'm reminded of the proverb: "Don't wrestle with a pig - you will both get covered in pig shit, but the pig will enjoy it." It's very easy to take a few words out of context, but *demonstrating* that they are out of context is a much bigger job. Who has time to write a large book to refute something that not many people take seriously anyway? It's a pity though. If there is a proper dissection out there on the net, I wouldn't mind knowing about it. All the best Alex Wilding > -----Original Message----- > From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l- > bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Margaret Gouin > Sent: 19 July 2012 10:55 > To: Buddhist discussion forum > Subject: [Buddha-l] Victor and Victoria Trimondi > > A friend recently sent me an extract from a book called 'The Shadow of > the Dalai Lama' by Victor and Victoria Trimondi. > All I've been able to find out on-line is that this couple is of German > origin; the websites I've found are either run by them or their > supporters. They appear to make a speciality of 'debunking' Tibetan > Buddhism. At least some of their books are available online in English > but only a couple, in German, on Amazon. > Can anyone tell me more about these two? Specifically, what is the > basis for their expertise (if any) in the field? > I'm curious because of the almost total lack information about them, > especially from Buddhist sources (book reviews, etc.). > > Thanks. > > Margaret > ---------------------------------------- > Margaret Gouin, PhD (Bristol) > Honorary Research Fellow > School of Theology, Religious Studies and Islamic Studies University of > Wales Trinity Saint David > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From rhayes at unm.edu Thu Jul 19 06:33:35 2012 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 06:33:35 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Victor and Victoria Trimondi In-Reply-To: <973DEFA69068C54A91F871887CB8B3A7A25721BF02@lp10.campus.local> References: <973DEFA69068C54A91F871887CB8B3A7A25721BF02@lp10.campus.local> Message-ID: <2BA78674-23BC-498D-B509-271DAC81AD29@unm.edu> On Jul 19, 2012, at 2:54 AM, Margaret Gouin wrote: > A friend recently sent me an extract from a book called 'The Shadow of the Dalai Lama' by Victor and Victoria Trimondi. > All I've been able to find out on-line is that this couple is of German origin; the websites I've found are either run by them or their supporters. They appear to make a speciality of 'debunking' Tibetan Buddhism. At least some of their books are available online in English but only a couple, in German, on Amazon. I don't know about them at all but am curious. Do they debunk all of Tibetan Buddhism, or do they specialize in slandering the Dalai Lama? About fifteen years ago I encountered several people in newsgroup discussions who wrote vicious accusations about the Dalai Lama, which gave all appearances of being scholarly. As Alex has observed, these people were quite articulate and very clever at debate. There was no such thing as having a reasonable discussion with them. It turned out they were NKT people. At about the same time I recall getting entangled with a few PhD candidates in history, who were studying in Canadian universities. They were from China. Their agenda was to make Tibetans look like savages who really needed the Chinese to civilize them, and they loved to point out the parallels between Chinese benevolence toward the savage Tibetans and North American benevolence toward the savage native peoples. They quickly turned anyone who took them on into sausage. Just hearing about Victor and Victoria Trimondi is making by flak wounds from previous wars throb. Richard Hayes From mb.schiekel at arcor.de Thu Jul 19 09:33:17 2012 From: mb.schiekel at arcor.de (M.B. Schiekel) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:33:17 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] Victor and Victoria Trimondi In-Reply-To: <973DEFA69068C54A91F871887CB8B3A7A25721BF02@lp10.campus.local> References: <973DEFA69068C54A91F871887CB8B3A7A25721BF02@lp10.campus.local> Message-ID: <500828BD.8060900@arcor.de> Am 19.07.2012 10:54, schrieb Margaret Gouin: > A friend recently sent me an extract from a book called 'The Shadow > of the Dalai Lama' by Victor and Victoria Trimondi. Hello Margaret, have a look at this German Wikipedia article: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Trimondi cheers - bernhard -- http://www.mb-schiekel.de/ GPG-Key available: GnuPG-2.0.12 From jkirk at spro.net Thu Jul 19 10:35:24 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:35:24 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Victor and Victoria Trimondi In-Reply-To: <500828BD.8060900@arcor.de> References: <973DEFA69068C54A91F871887CB8B3A7A25721BF02@lp10.campus.local> <500828BD.8060900@arcor.de> Message-ID: <008b01cd65cc$7f8663e0$7e932ba0$@spro.net> Readers of German might find out more here: http://www.trimondi.de/ : TRIMONDI ONLINE MAGAZIN : Kritische und Kreative Kultur Debatte Inhalte des Online Magazins Der Dalai Lama und die CIA ETC. etc etc Joanna ______________________ -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of M.B. Schiekel Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 9:33 AM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Victor and Victoria Trimondi Am 19.07.2012 10:54, schrieb Margaret Gouin: > A friend recently sent me an extract from a book called 'The Shadow > of the Dalai Lama' by Victor and Victoria Trimondi. Hello Margaret, have a look at this German Wikipedia article: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Trimondi cheers - bernhard -- http://www.mb-schiekel.de/ GPG-Key available: GnuPG-2.0.12 _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Thu Jul 19 10:42:27 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:42:27 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Victor and Victoria Trimondi In-Reply-To: <500828BD.8060900@arcor.de> References: <973DEFA69068C54A91F871887CB8B3A7A25721BF02@lp10.campus.local> <500828BD.8060900@arcor.de> Message-ID: <008c01cd65cd$7bd01d30$73705790$@spro.net> Their (apparently) official bios: http://www.american-buddha.com/bio.tri.htm BIOGRAPHIES OF VICTOR AND VICTORIA TRIMONDI jk -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of M.B. Schiekel Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2012 9:33 AM To: Buddhist discussion forum Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Victor and Victoria Trimondi Am 19.07.2012 10:54, schrieb Margaret Gouin: > A friend recently sent me an extract from a book called 'The Shadow > of the Dalai Lama' by Victor and Victoria Trimondi. Hello Margaret, have a look at this German Wikipedia article: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Trimondi cheers - bernhard -- http://www.mb-schiekel.de/ GPG-Key available: GnuPG-2.0.12 _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From curt at cola.iges.org Thu Jul 19 18:21:39 2012 From: curt at cola.iges.org (curt steinmetz) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 20:21:39 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] Victor and Victoria Trimondi In-Reply-To: <973DEFA69068C54A91F871887CB8B3A7A25721BF02@lp10.campus.local> References: <973DEFA69068C54A91F871887CB8B3A7A25721BF02@lp10.campus.local> Message-ID: <5008A493.2040307@cola.iges.org> Here is a very interesting/revealing interview with Victor/Victoria from 2003: http://www.whale.to/b/trimondi.html The interview was conducted by Jim Stephens, and it is obvious that Stephens is a fan of the Trimondis. For those not familiar with Stephens he is a former Nichiren Shoshu Buddhist turned Christian evangelist who now specializes in proselytization aimed at bringing Western Buddhists back into the Christian fold. Here is the biographical information that the Trimondis themselves provide at their own website (I think it is the same as what is also found at "american-buddha.com"): http://www.trimondi.de/EN/biograph.html Curt On 7/19/12 4:54 AM, Margaret Gouin wrote: > A friend recently sent me an extract from a book called 'The Shadow of the Dalai Lama' by Victor and Victoria Trimondi. > All I've been able to find out on-line is that this couple is of German origin; the websites I've found are either run by them or their supporters. They appear to make a speciality of 'debunking' Tibetan Buddhism. At least some of their books are available online in English but only a couple, in German, on Amazon. > Can anyone tell me more about these two? Specifically, what is the basis for their expertise (if any) in the field? > I'm curious because of the almost total lack information about them, especially from Buddhist sources (book reviews, etc.). > > Thanks. > > Margaret > ---------------------------------------- > Margaret Gouin, PhD (Bristol) > Honorary Research Fellow > School of Theology, Religious Studies and Islamic Studies > University of Wales Trinity Saint David > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Thu Jul 19 20:03:28 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 20:03:28 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] Victor and Victoria Trimondi In-Reply-To: <5008A493.2040307@cola.iges.org> References: <973DEFA69068C54A91F871887CB8B3A7A25721BF02@lp10.campus.local> <5008A493.2040307@cola.iges.org> Message-ID: <000601cd661b$db5b3430$92119c90$@spro.net> What the Trimondi's overlook is that all the major religions of the world, ancient and some modern, look toward an Armageddon of some sort, an end of the world. The Kalachakra that they rant about is no different from some of the more ancient scenarios, nor from contemporary ones, like amassing atomic bombs. The Nordic god myths did, the Hindu mythology does although in their case it is a repeated cycle of creation-destruction; the Abrahamic religions look toward the last days with the appearance of a Messiah or for the Sunnis, Allah (in this I include Islam as Abrahamic, he was the first Prophet); and today the Christian fundamentalist Dominionists look to the overcoming of all secular state governments by Christian conversion and literal belief in the Bible, where Biblical laws and taboos will replace secular law (the Christian shari'a so to speak); just as today's Salafis look for the triumph of the universal rule of Shari'a and implementing the Islamocracy. Other fundamentalist Christians are just as eager to see the last battle, which they think will take place in Israel, when Jesus will triumph, the good go to heaven and the evil to hell, and the Jews will be converted. All of the major nations of the world have had messianic visions of warfare and triumph. One might even speculate that these visions are the historic basis of the major appeal that their lust for violence has installed in human psychology (see, for ex., the mass popularity of violent video games). I never got interested in the Kalachakra ritual (or any of their other rites), and I have no idea why the Dalai Lama specializes on it. He may just keep on doing it because that's part of his expected roles. Performing the rite allows him to maintain his leadership of the monks and devotees. In recent years he has seemed to have become more of a politician than a 'spiritual' leader, traveling around, raising money for his cause. Retiring has released him from that. I suspect that he is of two minds, like many another human being--he doesn't want to lose out on possible useful advice from his divination master, but then he has already said that if scientific research contradicts some Buddhist teachings, those teachings have to go. He has never pretended that he thinks he is "enlightened". A better title for V&V's book would be, 'The Shadow of the Kalachakra'. Joanna From aryacitta at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 00:47:48 2012 From: aryacitta at hotmail.com (David Living) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 06:47:48 +0000 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park near Lhasa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well it may not be a bad thing. At least they're not getting Disney or Hollywood in on the act....or are they? Disneyland Lhasa. I didn't see the Chinese Olympics so I don't know how good the level of "cultural involvement" will be. Tibetans just can't fixate on the past too much, they'll need to get creative. Aryacitta/Dave Living From aryacitta at hotmail.com Fri Jul 20 01:14:39 2012 From: aryacitta at hotmail.com (David Living) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 07:14:39 +0000 Subject: [Buddha-l] Victor and Victoria Trimondi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tibetan Buddhism has its faults and probably would benefit from a constructive criticism. Even the tolkus are sometimes not convinced they are tolkus. Its politics - where there's Politics there's corruption. The question is do the Tibetans have the wherewithal to keep corruption in check or are they as bad at checking it as we are in the UK! It seems Tibetan Buddhism often goes in for "Literalism" as much as the Theravadins do. Ideas like the texts are literally true - rebirth, Karma etc is literally true and for your own security you need to believe in them don't encourage creative involvement. That said it would be a tragedy if China destroys it all. Aryacitta/Dave From jehms at xs4all.nl Fri Jul 20 01:31:28 2012 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 09:31:28 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park near Lhasa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <50090950.20501@xs4all.nl> Op 20-07-12 08:47, David Living schreef: > Well it may not be a bad thing. At least they're not getting Disney or Hollywood in on the act....or are they? > Disneyland Lhasa. I didn't see the Chinese Olympics so I don't know how good the level of "cultural involvement" > will be. Tibetans just can't fixate on the past too much, they'll need to get creative. > > Aryacitta/Dave Living If you see the words 'Chinese theme park' think lots of life size statues, a few replica of old houses that you can walk through, and lots of shopping streets or even malls whith lots of restaurants and shops that sell souvenirs from all over China, like lama outfits for children with panda bags. all this filled with Chinese tourists that are making photo shots from each other in front of the houses, statues and in the restaurants. I trust the Chinese will equal the US in tastelessness. erik From rhayes at unm.edu Fri Jul 20 05:16:42 2012 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard Hayes) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 05:16:42 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park near Lhasa In-Reply-To: <50090950.20501@xs4all.nl> References: <50090950.20501@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <33134A91-1F2C-4D7B-A3FC-10D284DB32E9@unm.edu> On Jul 20, 2012, at 1:31 AM, Erik Hoogcarspel wrote: > I trust the Chinese will equal the US in tastelessness. This is really insulting, Erik. Nobody rivals Americans in tastelessness. From jkirk at spro.net Fri Jul 20 08:04:54 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:04:54 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park near Lhasa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003b01cd6680$a3932930$eab97b90$@spro.net> Chinese theme parks are created, produced, and probably also built by Han Chinese, unless they hire a few Tibetans as semi-slave labor. The creativity will have nothing to do with Tibetans. They might however see it as an avenue to some employment, if they are lucky. JK -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of David Living Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 12:48 AM To: BuddhaL Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park near Lhasa Well it may not be a bad thing. At least they're not getting Disney or Hollywood in on the act....or are they? Disneyland Lhasa. I didn't see the Chinese Olympics so I don't know how good the level of "cultural involvement" will be. Tibetans just can't fixate on the past too much, they'll need to get creative. Aryacitta/Dave Living _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jkirk at spro.net Fri Jul 20 08:10:56 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:10:56 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park near Lhasa In-Reply-To: <50090950.20501@xs4all.nl> References: <50090950.20501@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <003c01cd6681$7b68c310$723a4930$@spro.net> If you see the words 'Chinese theme park' think lots of life size statues, a few replica of old houses that you can walk through, and lots of shopping streets or even malls whith lots of restaurants and shops that sell souvenirs from all over China, like lama outfits for children with panda bags. all this filled with Chinese tourists that are making photo shots from each other in front of the houses, statues and in the restaurants. I trust the Chinese will equal the US in tastelessness. erik ------------------------ They will equal the US or even surpass us in tastelessness---very competitive, you know. Probably a few deconstructionistickly correct art historians will attack the idea of "taste," and offer their approval to the plan. However, a look at all the Buddhist stuff and lama ads in Tricycle magazine also gives one pause, if not paws. JK From jehms at xs4all.nl Fri Jul 20 08:49:14 2012 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:49:14 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park near Lhasa In-Reply-To: <003b01cd6680$a3932930$eab97b90$@spro.net> References: <003b01cd6680$a3932930$eab97b90$@spro.net> Message-ID: <50096FEA.7020609@xs4all.nl> Op 20-07-12 16:04, Jo schreef: > Chinese theme parks are created, produced, and probably also built by Han > Chinese, unless they hire a few Tibetans as semi-slave labor. The creativity > will have nothing to do with Tibetans. They might however see it as an > avenue to some employment, if they are lucky. > > JK > > Do not underestimate the flexibility of the Chinese entrepreneur, Joanna. I have seen shop owners in China that claimed to be of genuine Tibetan descendence, and told all kinds of fake stories about their 'relatives' in Lhasa. I even would not be surprised if the obligatory Tibetan dance group and street vendors in the theme park will come from Beijing. It is btw very easy to tell if someone is Tibetan by the typical pronunciation of the dentals which no Chinese will ever master. It will be however very difficult to find someone who will set himself on fire in the streets now and then, only the be harshly beaten afterwards by secret police. But I suppose everybody has his price. Perhaps a job for captured Falung Gong members? erik From jkirk at spro.net Fri Jul 20 11:31:41 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 11:31:41 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park near Lhasa In-Reply-To: <50096FEA.7020609@xs4all.nl> References: <003b01cd6680$a3932930$eab97b90$@spro.net> <50096FEA.7020609@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <003801cd669d$869b8490$93d28db0$@spro.net> Op 20-07-12 16:04, Jo schreef: > Chinese theme parks are created, produced, and probably also built by > Han Chinese, unless they hire a few Tibetans as semi-slave labor. The > creativity will have nothing to do with Tibetans. They might however > see it as an avenue to some employment, if they are lucky. > > JK > > Do not underestimate the flexibility of the Chinese entrepreneur, Joanna. I have seen shop owners in China that claimed to be of genuine Tibetan descendence, and told all kinds of fake stories about their 'relatives' in Lhasa. I even would not be surprised if the obligatory Tibetan dance group and street vendors in the theme park will come from Beijing. It is btw very easy to tell if someone is Tibetan by the typical pronunciation of the dentals which no Chinese will ever master. It will be however very difficult to find someone who will set himself on fire in the streets now and then, only the be harshly beaten afterwards by secret police. But I suppose everybody has his price. Perhaps a job for captured Falung Gong members? erik _______________________________________________ Yes, Eric--- what you say adds nicely to what I wrote. Yesterday I said, "All of the major nations of the world have had messianic visions of warfare and triumph. One might even speculate that these visions are the historic basis of the major appeal that their lust for violence has installed in human psychology (see, for ex., the mass popularity of violent video games)." That remark underlines the gun attacks reported today (but happened last night after midnight so datewise, today) in a movie theater in Aurora, CO. It was the new Batman film's opening there. Twelve people died and dozens were injured. I'm betting that the perpetrator is a big fan of the most murderous, sadistic-type video games. Joanna From jkirk at spro.net Sun Jul 22 19:28:16 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 19:28:16 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] The Daiichi nuclear power reactors fiasco at Fukushima Message-ID: <002501cd6872$6f696130$4e3c2390$@spro.net> So far, I've not seen anything on this list commenting on the tragedy of Japan's Fukushima nuclear reactors disaster after the earthquake and tsunami of March, 2011. May we contemplate the consequences to ordinary citizens of meltdown radiation that blanketed the Fukushima area, and their desertion by the "authorities"? The anguish (to borrow Stephen Batchelor's translation of dukkha) of these people is not about "craving," or "attachment"-it is about the destruction of their householder lives in human community: growing vegetables, keeping milk cows, managing one's hereditary shrine, raising children, running shops to supply the locals. Compassion is based on identification-the farmer with his crops and animals; the priest with his shrine and with those who came back to stay after evacuation, and so on. Let us think on them. Please view this video. You won't see it on cable TV here in the US: http://enenews.com/documentary-what-has-happened-to-us-psychologically-physi cally-financially-is-truly-unimaginable-video JK From jkirk at spro.net Sun Jul 22 19:39:40 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 19:39:40 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] The Daiichi nuclear power reactors fiasco at Fukushima In-Reply-To: <002501cd6872$6f696130$4e3c2390$@spro.net> References: <002501cd6872$6f696130$4e3c2390$@spro.net> Message-ID: <002f01cd6874$0736f670$15a4e350$@spro.net> Sorry--here is the tiny link: http://tinyurl.com/cdp5y36 -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Jo Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 7:28 PM To: Buddha-L Subject: [Buddha-l] The Daiichi nuclear power reactors fiasco at Fukushima So far, I've not seen anything on this list commenting on the tragedy of Japan's Fukushima nuclear reactors disaster after the earthquake and tsunami of March, 2011. May we contemplate the consequences to ordinary citizens of meltdown radiation that blanketed the Fukushima area, and their desertion by the "authorities"? The anguish (to borrow Stephen Batchelor's translation of dukkha) of these people is not about "craving," or "attachment"-it is about the destruction of their householder lives in human community: growing vegetables, keeping milk cows, managing one's hereditary shrine, raising children, running shops to supply the locals. Compassion is based on identification-the farmer with his crops and animals; the priest with his shrine and with those who came back to stay after evacuation, and so on. Let us think on them. Please view this video. You won't see it on cable TV here in the US: http://enenews.com/documentary-what-has-happened-to-us-psychologically-physi cally-financially-is-truly-unimaginable-video JK _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From chris.fynn at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 06:25:09 2012 From: chris.fynn at gmail.com (Christopher Fynn) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 18:25:09 +0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park ousdie Lhasa-------- In-Reply-To: <50072E21.4050106@xs4all.nl> References: <000001cd64f0$3bda66f0$b38f34d0$@spro.net> <8FC1D86738A645E3B4E8C1B954D3A1C1@Dan> <003301cd6514$b62c4bc0$2284e340$@spro.net> <50072E21.4050106@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: Erik The Chinese have already built several replicas of the Potala in Lhasa http://www.flickr.com/photos/nomad710/3783889567 http://www.flickr.com/photos/vikingrivercruises/4627568565/ http://peterwilkie.photoshelter.com/image/I0000Xn9oL4z9IJU - C On 19/07/2012, Erik Hoogcarspel wrote: > Perhaps also stupid. I mean there are lots of Chinese middle class > people who now have the money to go somewhere and they do not mind to > stand in line for hours and visit the most crappy theme parks. But I > wonder if you can go on for ever, if there will not come a time that > even the most insensitive Chinese grow tired of theme parks or that they > discover that it is more convenient to build one near Beijing. > They build replica of European towns but who would build a replica near > the original? Perhaps they are planning to destroy all of Lhasa? > > erik > From jehms at xs4all.nl Mon Jul 23 14:40:30 2012 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:40:30 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park ousdie Lhasa-------- In-Reply-To: References: <000001cd64f0$3bda66f0$b38f34d0$@spro.net> <8FC1D86738A645E3B4E8C1B954D3A1C1@Dan> <003301cd6514$b62c4bc0$2284e340$@spro.net> <50072E21.4050106@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <500DB6BE.9080405@xs4all.nl> Thanks Chris, so much for communist originality right? But we are talking theme parks here after the Indian videocoach and Guantanamo Bay the most sophisticated torture instrument for innocents. erik Op 23-07-12 14:25, Christopher Fynn schreef: > Erik > > The Chinese have already built several replicas of the Potala in Lhasa > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/nomad710/3783889567 > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/vikingrivercruises/4627568565/ > > http://peterwilkie.photoshelter.com/image/I0000Xn9oL4z9IJU > > - C > > > On 19/07/2012, Erik Hoogcarspel wrote: >> Perhaps also stupid. I mean there are lots of Chinese middle class >> people who now have the money to go somewhere and they do not mind to >> stand in line for hours and visit the most crappy theme parks. But I >> wonder if you can go on for ever, if there will not come a time that >> even the most insensitive Chinese grow tired of theme parks or that they >> discover that it is more convenient to build one near Beijing. >> They build replica of European towns but who would build a replica near >> the original? Perhaps they are planning to destroy all of Lhasa? >> >> erik >> > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From lidewij at gmail.com Wed Jul 25 16:08:41 2012 From: lidewij at gmail.com (Lidewij Niezink) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 00:08:41 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] The Daiichi nuclear power reactors fiasco at Fukushima In-Reply-To: <002f01cd6874$0736f670$15a4e350$@spro.net> References: <002501cd6872$6f696130$4e3c2390$@spro.net> <002f01cd6874$0736f670$15a4e350$@spro.net> Message-ID: Thank you Joanna, I'll be sharing this video. We may contemplate it all but we might better move into a zone of doing something about what is going on. Don't wait for your authorities to make it happen, they don't either. cheers, Lidewij On 23 July 2012 03:39, Jo wrote: > Sorry--here is the tiny link: > http://tinyurl.com/cdp5y36 > > -----Original Message----- > From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com > [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Jo > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 7:28 PM > To: Buddha-L > Subject: [Buddha-l] The Daiichi nuclear power reactors fiasco at Fukushima > > So far, I've not seen anything on this list commenting on the tragedy of > Japan's Fukushima nuclear reactors disaster after the earthquake and > tsunami > of March, 2011. > > May we contemplate the consequences to ordinary citizens of meltdown > radiation that blanketed the Fukushima area, and their desertion by the > "authorities"? > > The anguish (to borrow Stephen Batchelor's translation of dukkha) of these > people is not about "craving," or "attachment"-it is about the destruction > of their householder lives in human community: growing vegetables, keeping > milk cows, managing one's hereditary shrine, raising children, running > shops > to supply the locals. Compassion is based on identification-the farmer with > his crops and animals; the priest with his shrine and with those who came > back to stay after evacuation, and so on. Let us think on them. > > Please view this video. You won't see it on cable TV here in the US: > > > http://enenews.com/documentary-what-has-happened-to-us-psychologically-physi > cally-financially-is-truly-unimaginable-video > > > > JK > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > -- Dr. Lidewij Niezink http://nl.linkedin.com/in/lniezink Charter for Compassion: http://tinyurl.com/24xxacb Empathy: http://tinyurl.com/2a8qbsz From jkirk at spro.net Wed Jul 25 16:54:30 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:54:30 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] The Daiichi nuclear power reactors fiasco at Fukushima In-Reply-To: References: <002501cd6872$6f696130$4e3c2390$@spro.net> <002f01cd6874$0736f670$15a4e350$@spro.net> Message-ID: <003701cd6ab8$7383b2f0$5a8b18d0$@spro.net> Dear Lidewij, Happy to see that at least one of us on this list thinks on this situation. I belong to two good organisations that inform our US public about the nuclear political programs and their deficiencies. I sign their petitions to the DOE and the NRC whenever I get one. Otherwise, I can only write and publicise, find information and share it. On the lookout for a way to share something of this horrendous danger added to the others, like global climate change and corporate fascism, I check my local newspaper off and on to see if there are any articles that I can attach a comment to. I found one today, about a bill in our Congress to regulate toxics regularly allowed so far in our air water and soil. This time my comment hinted at a warning (I cannot be too blunt as the owner/editor of the newspaper blog might remove it), as follows: http://tinyurl.com/d6sb6bm Toxics regulation new Submitted by _________ on Wed, 07/25/2012 - 11:07am. "Evidence that chemical exposures significantly contribute to disease and disability burdens in the United States is undeniable, strong, and continues to grow," said Ted Schettler, science director of the Science and Environmental Health Network." One source of toxics contamination being kept under cover is the fact of radiation-contaminated fish off of our western shores, thanks to the nuke fiasco in Japan. See this Vancouver BC news article about it: http://www.straight.com/article-735051/vancouver/japans-irradiated-fish-worr y-bc-experts The article also points out that so far neither Canadian nor US government relevant agencies have even begun to investigate. Japan ships tons of fish to our west coasts for sale. If people eat a lot of irradiated seafood, they are in for a lot of illness down the road. This is a top public health problem waiting in line, after the pesticides and all the other stuff the new law might regulate. Such is the control of the nuclear industry corporations over government here, and even over the President and his energy secretary, that public criticism in major media of this industry is suppressed. One has to learn about the various civil organisations that oppose it in order to learn about any of it. So far there has been no sign that our government even cares about the impending contamination of the Pacific Ocean, or of some of our fresh water lakes near which such power plants have been located (about 30 of them on the Great Lakes), or about the public health consequences for fish and seafood supplies currently being marketed. Sorry, I have already written too much. Best, Joanna __________________ Lidewij Niezink wrote, Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 4:09 PM To: Buddhist discussion forum Thank you Joanna, I'll be sharing this video. We may contemplate it all but we might better move into a zone of doing something about what is going on. Don't wait for your authorities to make it happen, they don't either. cheers, Lidewij On 23 July 2012 03:39, Jo wrote: > Sorry--here is the tiny link: > http://tinyurl.com/cdp5y36 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com > [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Jo > Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 7:28 PM > To: Buddha-L > Subject: [Buddha-l] The Daiichi nuclear power reactors fiasco at > Fukushima > > So far, I've not seen anything on this list commenting on the tragedy > of Japan's Fukushima nuclear reactors disaster after the earthquake > and tsunami of March, 2011. > > May we contemplate the consequences to ordinary citizens of meltdown > radiation that blanketed the Fukushima area, and their desertion by > the "authorities"? > > The anguish (to borrow Stephen Batchelor's translation of dukkha) of > these people is not about "craving," or "attachment"-it is about the > destruction of their householder lives in human community: growing > vegetables, keeping milk cows, managing one's hereditary shrine, > raising children, running shops to supply the locals. Compassion is > based on identification-the farmer with his crops and animals; the > priest with his shrine and with those who came back to stay after > evacuation, and so on. Let us think on them. > > Please view this video. You won't see it on cable TV here in the US: > > > http://enenews.com/documentary-what-has-happened-to-us-psychologically > -physi cally-financially-is-truly-unimaginable-video > > > > JK > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > -- Dr. Lidewij Niezink http://nl.linkedin.com/in/lniezink Charter for Compassion: http://tinyurl.com/24xxacb Empathy: http://tinyurl.com/2a8qbsz _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From aryacitta at hotmail.com Thu Jul 26 09:29:22 2012 From: aryacitta at hotmail.com (David Living) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:29:22 +0000 Subject: [Buddha-l] potala replica, chengde, china In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I particularly like the fake mountains on one of the pictures. Is it full size or just a little model? Its hard to make out from the pictures. Maybe they could have a model Hornby steam train puffing through it or coming out of a tunnel somewhere. Dave Living/Aryacitta Southend on Sea UK --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: buddha-l-request at mailman.swcp.com > Subject: buddha-l Digest, Vol 89, Issue 11 > To: buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:00:10 -0600 > > Send buddha-l mailing list submissions to > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > buddha-l-request at mailman.swcp.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > buddha-l-owner at mailman.swcp.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of buddha-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: China plans theme park ousdie Lhasa-------- (Erik Hoogcarspel) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 22:40:30 +0200 > From: Erik Hoogcarspel > Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] China plans theme park ousdie Lhasa-------- > To: Buddhist discussion forum > Message-ID: <500DB6BE.9080405 at xs4all.nl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Thanks Chris, > > so much for communist originality right? But we are talking theme parks > here after the Indian videocoach and Guantanamo Bay the most > sophisticated torture instrument for innocents. > > erik > > > > Op 23-07-12 14:25, Christopher Fynn schreef: > > Erik > > > > The Chinese have already built several replicas of the Potala in Lhasa > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/nomad710/3783889567 > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/vikingrivercruises/4627568565/ > > > > http://peterwilkie.photoshelter.com/image/I0000Xn9oL4z9IJU > > > > - C > > > > > > On 19/07/2012, Erik Hoogcarspel wrote: > >> Perhaps also stupid. I mean there are lots of Chinese middle class > >> people who now have the money to go somewhere and they do not mind to > >> stand in line for hours and visit the most crappy theme parks. But I > >> wonder if you can go on for ever, if there will not come a time that > >> even the most insensitive Chinese grow tired of theme parks or that they > >> discover that it is more convenient to build one near Beijing. > >> They build replica of European towns but who would build a replica near > >> the original? Perhaps they are planning to destroy all of Lhasa? > >> > >> erik > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > buddha-l mailing list > > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > > > End of buddha-l Digest, Vol 89, Issue 11 > **************************************** From aryacitta at hotmail.com Thu Jul 26 10:08:45 2012 From: aryacitta at hotmail.com (David Living) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 16:08:45 +0000 Subject: [Buddha-l] The Daiichi nuclear power reactors fiasco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't think anyone knows what is going to happen and what to do about Nuclear Reactor disasters. We don't seem to hear about all the experts who are flocking down there to help sort things out. Perhaps there aren't any. It all looks quite peaceful and fertile to the untrained eye but where are the geiger counters? What is happening to those people who went in and closed the reactor down at the risk of their own lives? It was a little unsettling last year to hear so much bad news and then suddenly have a complete blackout. Was it just because the newspapers thought the public wanted to know more about how many locals had been mugged and robbed over the past few days and how many cars had been stolen rather than the possible ecological disaster? Aryacitta/Dave Living From jkirk at spro.net Thu Jul 26 14:11:44 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 14:11:44 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] The Daiichi nuclear power reactors fiasco In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004301cd6b6a$e13f7470$a3be5d50$@spro.net> David, For regular up-dates on the Daiichi reactors, see the following links: www.ENENews.com - Energy News http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/news/50176 http://www.petridish.org/projects/fukushima-trips-transport-of-radionuclides -in-pelagic-species This site is run by a scientific team trying to garner support for testing off-western-UScoast salmon and other fish that migrate between here and Japan area. I donated. This one reports on Fuk. and also (on other pages) abut radio isotopes in and off coastal USA, mostly Calif. http://www.enviroreporter.com/2012/03/rad-news-digest/31/ ...This is the last page of many--for earlier posts follow the page numbers bottom of the page--ignore the comments--most of them as useless as on every other media comment format--also turn off your PC's sound--they run video commercials in order to support their site. Somewhere on this site you can also learn how to buy a good and not too pricey Geiger Counter. Joanna -----Original Message----- From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com [mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of David Living Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2012 10:09 AM To: BuddhaL Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] The Daiichi nuclear power reactors fiasco I don't think anyone knows what is going to happen and what to do about Nuclear Reactor disasters. We don't seem to hear about all the experts who are flocking down there to help sort things out. Perhaps there aren't any. It all looks quite peaceful and fertile to the untrained eye but where are the geiger counters? What is happening to those people who went in and closed the reactor down at the risk of their own lives? It was a little unsettling last year to hear so much bad news and then suddenly have a complete blackout. Was it just because the newspapers thought the public wanted to know more about how many locals had been mugged and robbed over the past few days and how many cars had been stolen rather than the possible ecological disaster? Aryacitta/Dave Living _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From lidewij at gmail.com Fri Jul 27 14:18:33 2012 From: lidewij at gmail.com (Lidewij Niezink) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 22:18:33 +0200 Subject: [Buddha-l] On Eve of the Olympics, China Rolls out new Tibet Propaganda Message-ID: Yesterday, England?s newspaper The Telegraph (nicknamed the ?Tory-graph? after the country?s conservative political party to which it caters) ran a piece of pure Chinese propaganda. The piece (one could hardly call it an article)is by Liu Xiaoming, the Chinese ambassador to Britain, and was featured just a day before the Olympic Games Opening Ceremony (tonight). Amazingly, Liu claims that: see link: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/americanbuddhist/2012/07/on-eve-of-the-olympics-china-rolls-out-new-tibet-propaganda.html From jkirk at spro.net Fri Jul 27 15:26:33 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:26:33 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] On Eve of the Olympics, China Rolls out new Tibet Propaganda Message-ID: <002b01cd6c3e$7f7e05b0$7e7a1110$@spro.net> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 2:19 PM Yesterday, England's newspaper The Telegraph (nicknamed the "Tory-graph " after the country's conservative political party to which it caters) ran a piece of pure Chinese propaganda. The piece (one could hardly call it an article)is by Liu Xiaoming, the Chinese ambassador to Britain, and was featured just a day before the Olympic Games Opening Ceremony (tonight). Amazingly, Liu claims that: see link: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/americanbuddhist/2012/07/on-eve-of-the-olympics -china-rolls-out-new-tibet-propaganda.html _______________________________________________ The hatred that official China shows towards Tibetans and the Dalai Lama is of the same tone and persecutory volume accorded to the Dalits (aka untouchables) in many parts of India. Its excessiveness will never persuade anybody with access to reasonable news media, such as The Guardian, let's say, and reports of Chinese persecution and displacement from property, spiritual practice, and employment of people of Tibetan culture within their own country. The above pre-Olympics tract is yet another example of, as Whittaker's Chinese friend said, "...everything that the Chinese government says is lies." Joanna From slachs at att.net Tue Jul 31 18:05:16 2012 From: slachs at att.net (Stuart Lachs) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 20:05:16 -0400 Subject: [Buddha-l] uinique article Message-ID: <388E2BA6860D4C49ACDD9BD0B5620A13@Stuki> "Leaving Om" linked below, is a unique article on young tulkus who are not fully accepting the roles chosen for them. But more importantly, it reveals the dark side of life for these young boys in Tibetan monasteries, mentioning severe beatings, on going rape, and attempted murder by a tutor. Especially moving is the section on the young Kalu Rimpoche. I suggest connecting to the link in the article, "Confessions of Kalu Rimpoche," a video he made in Paris. This is not an academic article, and "Details" seems like a strange choice of magazine for the article, but it is opening up a side of Tibetan monastic life not often discussed, especially so by first person participants. http://www.details.com/culture-trends/critical-eye/201208/leaving-om-new-buddhist-lifestyle From jkirk at spro.net Tue Jul 31 22:52:05 2012 From: jkirk at spro.net (Jo) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 22:52:05 -0600 Subject: [Buddha-l] uinique article In-Reply-To: <388E2BA6860D4C49ACDD9BD0B5620A13@Stuki> References: <388E2BA6860D4C49ACDD9BD0B5620A13@Stuki> Message-ID: <003d01cd6fa1$66368800$32a39800$@spro.net> I'm pleased that some tulkus came forward with some truth (instead of the usual obfuscations) about young boys in monasteries. Thanks, Stuart, for posting the link. Joanna From, Stuart Lachs Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2012 6:05 PM "Leaving Om" linked below, is a unique article on young tulkus who are not fully accepting the roles chosen for them. But more importantly, it reveals the dark side of life for these young boys in Tibetan monasteries, mentioning severe beatings, on going rape, and attempted murder by a tutor. Especially moving is the section on the young Kalu Rimpoche. I suggest connecting to the link in the article, "Confessions of Kalu Rimpoche," a video he made in Paris. This is not an academic article, and "Details" seems like a strange choice of magazine for the article, but it is opening up a side of Tibetan monastic life not often discussed, especially so by first person participants. http://www.details.com/culture-trends/critical-eye/201208/leaving-om-new-bud dhist-lifestyle _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l