[Buddha-l] Beyond Hope

Gregory Bungo gbungo at earthlink.net
Mon May 8 18:00:28 MDT 2006

Hi Curt,

Did you even bother to read my full message?  I wasn't defending
the U.S. prison system.  In fact I criticized it.

I could not find anything about Soviet or Maoist prisons in the
references that you supplied.  I may have missed it, but I have a
feeling you exaggerated, and you don't want to say so.  The inability
to admit a mistake is a sign of attachment to self.  Perhaps I
have misunderstood....

I will acknowledge my mistake if you do provide evidence for your
assertion about Stalinist or Maoist prisons.  I will also be
grateful for the education.


Greg Bungo

curt wrote on 5/8/06 4:59 PM:

> Here's a very nice 2005 world map with a country by country color code
> for incarceration rates (based on data from the International Center for
> Prison Studies, Kings College, London):
> http://worldpolicy.org/globalrights/dp/maps-incarceration.html
> Here's a link to a study of international incarcerations rates, by the
> "U.S. Justice Fund":
> http://www.soros.org/initiatives/justice/articles_publications/publications/in
> tl_incarceration_20030620
> Here's a link to a 2003 Christian Science Monitor article on
> incarceration rates:
> http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0818/p02s01-usju.html
> Here's a website on the "Real Price of Prison" hosted by Mother Jones
> Magazine:
> http://www.motherjones.com/news/special_reports/prisons/index.html
> The fact that anyone would feel the need to defend the US prison system
> against comparisons to the regimes of Mao or Stalin basically makes the
> point all by itself. In terms of being a police state, the U.S. is
> definitely playing in the major leagues - and we are in the top of our
> division. If we were to lose the world series (to Stalin or Mao - who
> only play in the "fantasy" league now, anyway) I don't see that it
> matters all that much!
> - Curt
> Gregory Bungo wrote:
>> Hi Curt,
>> <curt at cola.iges.org> wrote:
>>  (snip)
>>> That is not an immediately practical answer to
>>> the very real problem of the incredible rate of incarceration in the
>>> United States (higher than anything Stalin or Mao ever achieved) - but
>>> the more one is familiar with the realities of the U.S. prison system,
>>> the more revolutionary one is likely to become in one's outlook.
>>  (snip)
>> Do you have evidence to back up your statement about Stalin
>> and Mao?  Even if it is true, I suspect it would be due to the very
>> high mortality rate in the Stalinist and Maoist prisons.  The high
>> population of China would also be a factor.  Why imprison people
>> when they can be put to work against their will on a collective farm?
>> By the way, I'm not defending the U.S. prison system.  The
>> mandatory sentences for some offenses are outrageous.  There
>> are many people in prison who should be in medical treatment
>> programs.
>> Sincerely,
>> Greg Bungo
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