[Buddha-l] Another One Bites the Dust

Jo ugg-5 at spro.net
Mon Mar 4 11:15:20 MST 2013

Thanks, Tim--I agree. 
Batchelor's relating the two truths to the issue of ariyas and putujjanas in
this context of taking sexual (and I'd say other) advantages was a surprise
for me and persuasively put. Same for the rest of his discussion. 

IMO there IS an elephant in the room so far not-noted: the rule for same-sex
limitation of membership in monastic orders. Celibacy is also unnecessary
because it began in antque and later ages to be instituted to prevent hanky
panky and therefore loss of dana and reputation of an order.  IMO the
monasticism idea has to go and probably is already on its way out.

Other discussions on the same blog suggest practical organization rules
denoting as unlawful sexual access to novices, students, and so forth.
"Consenting adults" must be outside the organization or only as equal
officers in it.  Them's my 2 cents.



Having just perused Batchelor's article, I did not find it disappointing in
the least.  In fact, I think he lays out the case for understanding lust in
the context of any spiritual community, and makes a solid argument that our
biology trumps all rule making. Given what we see across the spectrum of
religious/spiritual communities and their struggles with sexual taboos and
abuses, I think he's dead right.

Timothy Smith

On Mar 3, 2013, at 11:46 PM, Margaret Gouin wrote:

> This would appear to be a garbled reference to something Stephen Batchelor
mentioned in a November post on Sweeping Zen (see point 3): 
> http://sweepingzen.com/buddhism-and-sex-the-bigger-picture/
> Batchelor gives no reference for the stories he mentions; perhaps someone
more familiar with the Pali Canon than I, would be able to locate them.
> I must say I found Batchelor's article very disappointing; he seems to be
saying that there have been sexual scandals since the time of the Buddha so
why are we getting so upset now? He wrote the article in the midst of the
disclosure of inappropriate behaviour by Tibetan Buddhist teacher Ken
McLeod, much of which had been discussed on Sweeping Zen.
> Margaret
> ----------------------------------------
> Margaret Gouin, PhD (Bristol)
> Honorary Research Fellow
> School of Theology, Religious Studies and Islamic Studies University 
> of Wales Trinity Saint David http://tsd.academia.edu/MargaretGouin
> http://www.routledge.com/books/details/9780415566360/
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