[Buddha-l] Another One Bites the Dust

Jo ugg-5 at spro.net
Tue Mar 5 11:42:43 MST 2013


"Where is karma when one needs it? How come groups/corporates go free? Is it
because of corporate law or guild law? All is fair in business between
guilds?  Don't we need to update and re-molarize moralistic folklore a bit?
:-)" 

Heheh--right about corporate karma! But too many Buddhists think there is no
such thing as collective karma. 

However, we need to leave the folklore alone. Unless one's writing a novel
or story I guess.  It can be used to indicate social structures of old. 

-----Original Message-----
From: buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com
[mailto:buddha-l-bounces at mailman.swcp.com] On Behalf Of Joy Vriens
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 10:26 AM
To: Buddhist discussion forum
Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Another One Bites the Dust

Hi Jo,

True, I left out the ascetics of other faiths who were jealous of the
Buddha's success and who would have encouraged her to do so, but isn't that
simply the basic conspiracy theory? This Cincamanavika certainly seemed to
know a lot of ascetics, Buddhist or otherwise. One may wonder what was the
nature of the relationship between this obviously non virtuous woman hanging
around viharas and all these ascetics? And you are right, why didn't
anything happen to those who had the idea of conspiring against the Buddhist
sangha? The Buddhist ascetics and the ascetics of other faiths (plural) do
make me think of guilds (Schopen) who were in competition with each other
and try to attack the others' 
reputation and to compromise each other by any means (what happens in the
media is nothing new IMO). But as a group or a guild they don't seem to be
accountable. They come up with the idea, bribe a person, and that person
gets the full load of karma? At least judging by the story. Where is karma
when one needs it? How come groups/corporates go free? Is it because of
corporate law or guild law? All is fair in business between guilds?  Don't
we need to update and re-molarize moralistic folklore a bit? :-)

Instead of an innocent/defenseless woman Cincamanavika may well have been
the local prostitute. The end of the story could even be an indication for
her being lynched by the mob. "Some of them spat on her and drove her out.
She ran as fast as she could, and when she had gone some distance the earth
cracked and fissured and she was swallowed up." 
She is obviously demonized in the story, and that is how "demons" come to
their end. The earth cracking and fissuring and swallowing her up is where
the story crosses over to the myth, because the real end is too horrible to
be told... That's another reading à la Girard ;-)

Yes these stories are moralistic folklore, but unfortunately they are more
popular (even with well educated Westerners) than solid Buddhism. 
Don't we all love gossip, speculation and conspiracy theories? I know I do!

Joy

Le 05/03/2013 16:22, Jo a écrit :
> However, Joy, you left out of this account the perpetrator who bribed 
> her to do it. So you can add to your 'take' on this story that she was 
> obviously a poor defenseless woman, else she'd not be bribable.
> But along with the sexism of the day, she gets the punishment, not the 
> man who inveigled her into doing it.
> I prefer to view such stories as moralistic folklore.
>

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