[Buddha-l] Re: Greetings from Oviedo

[Joy Vriens]

Hi Benito,

>>Which  according  to the AN X69 Kathavatthu Sutta, is
>>not really a topic of proper conversation, in that it
>>is not talk on modesty.

>    I  think  that  the Old Guy's concept of modesty was
> something  quite  different. For example, consider this
> advice from the _Maha-parinibbana sutta:_

>        In   this   case,  Ananda,  the  noble  disciple
>        possesses  unwavering  faith in the Buddha thus:
>        "The  Blessed  One  is  an  Arahant,  the  Fully
>        Enlightened   One,   perfect  in  knowledge  and
>        conduct, the Happy One, the knower of the world,
>        the  paramount trainer of beings, the teacher of
>        gods  and  men, the Enlightened One, the Blessed
>        One."

But couldn't this be simply an appeal to authority by attributing faith 
provoking epiteths of existing myths? Like saying
that Jesus is the Messiah, the prophet Eli, a descendant from King David 
etc.?

>>This  is is 100% speculation and creative thinking on
>>my  part,  but  the  fact that Devadatta actually was
>>demonized  tells me that he played a rather important
>>role before his demonization.

>    It  is  quite easy for me to think in Devadatta as a
> jealous  cousin.  He  got some political support, but I
> don't  think  a  jealous cousin could play an important
> role in early Buddhism.

That's the legend. Apparently there were still traces of followers of
Devadatta (more ascetism orientated) in the 7th century (source
Hiuan-Tsang, Lamotte p. 572). Another interesting fact is that the role of
bringing back schismatic monks is attributed to the dynamic duo
Sariputta and Moggallana (more intellect orientated) (lamotte p. 20).
Where was the Buddha during that time? Why didn't he use his awesome
authority?

>>Prophecies? Do you need better proof for Apocrypha?

>    The  Old  Guy  was  also able to recall all his past
> lifes.

That explains it then. :-)

Joy