[Buddha-l] religious pluralism in Asia

curt curt at cola.iges.org
Tue Mar 14 08:50:35 MST 2006


That intolerance and even violent intolerance exists in Asian Religions 
has never been denied. It might not seem important to some people, but 
at least to me it seems relevant to consider how much intolerance there 
has been, how consistent it has been, how egregious it has been - and, 
most importantly, how systematic and systemic it has been. When a cop 
beats the crap out of a Black motorist people want to know, and 
justifiably, whether it was an "isolated incident" or symptomatic of 
something much more serious. Same thing when people see pictures of US 
and British soldiers sadistically mistreating Iraqi prisoners - is it 
just a few Bad Apples, or is there a systematic policy of using torture 
approved at the highest levels? In investigating this type of phenomena 
one thing you would look for would be emails or other written "texts" 
from the higher ups saying things like "officers should target Black 
motorists for physical abuse" or "detainees should be humiliated and 
tortured in order to extract information, or just for fun". In the case 
of Christianity we have just such "texts" in the form of written 
statements going back at least to "Saint" Ireneaus in which Christians 
developed a very explicit "theory of intolerance".

Irenaeus simply expressed a general, theoretical intolerance of heresy 
and heretics, but "Saint" Augustine took it to next level and wrestled 
with the question of whether or not the use of coercion (imprisonment, 
torture and execution) is justified in matters of faith. Augustine at 
first argued that heretics should only be exhorted to change their ways 
- but eventually he relented and agreed that it would be beneficial to 
the souls of heretics if they were to be imprisoned and tortured in 
order to help "convince" them - but he argued against executing heretics 
(which was being done at the time already). By the time of Justinian 
("the Great") we have explicit legal codification of the death penalty 
for heretics. One thousand years after Justinian good old John Calvin 
ordered the heretic Michael Servetus burned alive, and he cited 
Justinian for legal precedence. Servetus, by the way, begged to be 
strangled before being burned - but the Calvinists preferred to burn 
heretics alive, even though the practice up until then had been to hang 
or strangle them first. Luther and the "Protestant" English monarchs 
were just as violent and intolerant as Calvin - in fact nearly all of 
the "Protestant" sects that arose during the so-called "Reformation"  
agreed with each other (and the Pope) on this one issue - everyone else 
is going to hell and should be sent there as quickly and as possible. So 
even as Christendom was becoming less monolithic it was actually 
becoming more violent and intolerant.

The closest equivalent to Justinian in Buddhism would seem to be Asoka. 
But where Justinian established a legal precedence for executing 
heretics (that would last for centuries), Asoka expounded an explicit 
policy of Religious toleration in his rock edicts. In China Buddhists, 
Confucianists and Taoists have also developed various ideas about the 
"harmonization" of those three philosophy-religions - and, in addition, 
Buddhists, Taoists and Confucianists have historically "tolerated" each 
other in practice - with periods of repression being intermittent. 
Probably the worst case is the repression of Buddhism in the Choson 
Dynasty in Korea. That repression did include calls for the execution of 
Buddhists - calls that, I believe, were never acted upon. Even during 
this period the repression was never absolute (compare to, say, the 
outright banning of Judaism and Islam in Spain) with Buddhists still 
being "allowed to exist" even during the harshest periods. At other 
times during the Choson Buddhists were more or less unmolested.

The "case" against Christianity, intolerance-wise, is much more than 
simply a list of evil deeds. It is a pattern of behavior and one that is 
extensively documented by the Christians themselves - and not just any 
Christians, but the very leaders and shapers of the Religion itself.

- Curt

G. McLoughlin wrote:

>Maybe the history of violent intolerance is shorter 
>in Asia but at least they are trying. The Yi dynasty
>in Korea did try to suppress Christians, using
>horrific means, for at least two, possibly three
>centuries. The earlier Choson dynasty did raze many
>Buddhist temples. In both cases, Confucians wanted to
>ensure "monolithic conformity and crush all
>manifestations of "heresy". Of course, they would have
>phrased it differently.  Of course, everything pales
>in comparison to what happened to believers of all
>kinds in North Korea in our own time.
>
> 
>--- curt <curt at cola.iges.org> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Now if the Japanese had just applied the same
>>measures across the board 
>>to all religions save one, and if they had persisted
>>in this practice 
>>for 15 consecutive centuries, then we could begin to
>>draw parallels with 
>>Christianity. There would also have to be equally
>>sadistic measures 
>>applied within the one allowed religion in order to
>>enforce a monolithic 
>>conformity and crush all manifestations of "heresy".
>>And the single 
>>allowed religion would also have to articulate an
>>explicit theory of 
>>persecution based directly on its own religious
>>teachings. These are not 
>>rhetorical jabs at Christianity, nor are they in any
>>way exaggerations - 
>>they are the factual parameters for any genuine
>>comparative approach to 
>>the phenomenon of religious intolerance. I point out
>>these unpleasant 
>>facts because I think there is a tendency to view
>>any and every specific 
>>instance of religious intolerance as somehow rising
>>to the same level as 
>>the systemic intolerance characteristic of
>>Christianity. That bar is 
>>pretty danged high - and Ieyasu didn't come close.
>>
>>One of the secondary themes of Zagorin's book is the
>>"theory of 
>>persecution" that Christianity developed (the second
>>chapter is entitled 
>>"The Christian Theory of Persecution"). That theory
>>began to be 
>>developed even before the reign of Constantine - and
>>was first applied 
>>by Christians to each other well before they had any
>>power to go after 
>>Jews and Pagans - for example, Ireneus' "Against All
>>Heresies" dates 
>>from 180. The primary theme of the rest of the book
>>is the slow process 
>>by which a critique of the Christian Theory of
>>Persecution developed - 
>>starting in the 16th century and continuing at least
>>into the 18th 
>>century. Zagorin points out that the Catholic Church
>>only articulated an 
>>explicit affirmation of the principle of religious
>>tolerance in 1965!
>>
>>Any investigation of religious tolerance and
>>intolerance in Asia would 
>>have to include Christianity which has been part of
>>the religious scene 
>>in Asia for over 400 years. For instance, the
>>Inquisition infamously set 
>>up a branch office in Goa in 1560. Not to mention
>>the fact that 
>>Christianity actually started in Asia in the first
>>place!
>>
>>- Curt
>>
>>jkirk wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>However, there was the banning and crucifixion of
>>>      
>>>
>>Christians in Japan 
>>    
>>
>>>under Ieyasu Tokugawa.
>>>Joanna
>>>==============
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Perez Zagorin's "How The Idea of Religious
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Toleration Came To The 
>>    
>>
>>>>West" offers a sobering overview of what any
>>>>        
>>>>
>>other Religion would 
>>    
>>
>>>>have to stoop to before they could ever hope to
>>>>        
>>>>
>>play in 
>>    
>>
>>>>Christianity's league intolerance-wise.
>>>>
>>>>On the other hand, the little volume "Buddhism in
>>>>        
>>>>
>>the Early Choson: 
>>    
>>
>>>>Suppression and Transformation" gives some idea
>>>>        
>>>>
>>of what passes for 
>>    
>>
>>>>Religious persecution outside of Christianity.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Buddhism was 
>>    
>>
>>>>suppressed for five centuries in Korea during the
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Choson dynasty, but 
>>    
>>
>>>>as far as I can tell not one Buddhist every had
>>>>        
>>>>
>>molten lead poured 
>>    
>>
>>>>into his or her mouth or was burned at the stake
>>>>        
>>>>
>>or had their skin 
>>    
>>
>>>>removed from their body while they were still
>>>>        
>>>>
>>alive. Sissies.
>>    
>>
>>====================================================
>>- Curt
>>    
>>
>>>>John Whalen-Bridge wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Hello all. One often hears discussion of the
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>pluralism and tolerance 
>>    
>>
>>>>>of Asian religions (Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism,
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>say) as compared to 
>>    
>>
>>>>>Religions of the Book.  Can anyone recommend a
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>good historical 
>>    
>>
>>>>>overview of this idea, whether affirming,
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>challenging, or something 
>>    
>>
>>>>>in between? And where is Richard Hayes?  He
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>can't be THAT busy.  
>>    
>>
>>>>>Richard, come home!
>>>>>Allbest,  JWB
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>buddha-l mailing list
>>>>>buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l
>>    
>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>        
>>>>
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>>>
>>>      
>>>
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>>    
>>
>
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