[Buddha-l] Pai-chang Huai-hai (was Re: there he goes again(samharris))

[Vicente Gonzalez]

Joy wrote:


JV> Pai-chang Huai-hai's definition of Ch'an and of concentration is
JV> "non-thought regarding objects" (Par concentration on entend la
JV> non-pensée par rapport aux objets), which seems pretty close to
JV> Lance's explaanation of guarding the sense doors. 
JV> "I don't think
JV> this involves trying to suppress the senses. It is spelt out that  
JV> when one sees a visible object with the eye, one should not grasp at  
JV> either the general appearance or at details. Similarly for each of  
JV> the other five senses. There is no suggestion that one should try to  
JV> suppress the operation of the senses altogether."

yes. Also I agree with both. Suppressing the senses perhaps it would
be a way to try of subjugating them, and it was already discarded by
Buddha. There is some people who talk about that experience of the stop
in meditation. I don't know what is that, although I'm not an expert
meditator. In my case, just I check that when the thoughts are stopped
it is because I go into sleep. Although I don't know what happens in
other heads. 

I understand the possibility of an stop of thinking in the sense of
the end of the process which remains under the illusion of an owner of
these thoughts. And I think it can be in the line of the Buddha advice
about how to practice with our perceived reality: when one see a tree,
then one knows that he is seeing a tree. In this way, there are not
thoughts regarding objects but just the knowledge of them here and
now. So it can be a way for the arising of non-grasping. Although it
is really difficult many times, of course. But attachment doesn't
arise because the contact with objects but because added thoughts and
feelings. 


JV> There is a direct question on the difference between seated and
JV> other forms of meditation and Huai-hai's reply (13th question) is
JV> that there is no difference. 

it is in agreement with those Theravada masters. Although I think
there is not a more refreshing reading than these Chinese masters,
Pai-Chang, Huang-po, etc..
One can read many things but when one return to these episodes then
one can remember quickly the basic thing. Are wonderful. :)



best regards,